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Author Topic: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.4  (Read 281861 times)

Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2022, 01:08:42 PM »

Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar

So basically this is the best mod ever created by man

Awwww, wow, thanks!   Holy cow! :D

Grettmer

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2022, 01:10:05 PM »

Hello, did I understand correctly that orbital stations rotate at high speed too?
I just noticed that it rotates very very fast and when shooting at it, my head starts spinning too :D
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 01:16:11 PM by Grettmer »
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General Vash

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2022, 01:26:22 PM »

I made an account to comment on this mod, absolutely stoked about it. I love how missiles feel, super snappy in a lot of cases and really threatening, much unlike a lot of the vanilla missile systems which move too slowly and can be outrun in some cases (makes no sense for missiles in space to move slower than a much, much more massive target).

I also love the range dynamics and armor mechanics, although I don't really get to feel how much of an impact the armor is making because there isn't an easy visual indication of a ricochet or a non-penetrating shot. It would be nice if it had a different color impact on penetration, or if glancing blows really obviously zinged off to the sides to show that no damage was done (maybe it already does something along these lines and I am just blind).

A few points of contention: the pilots seem to have no idea how to fly. They constantly accelerate too much and overshoot their target location, resulting in a panicked 180 degree turn and full thrust in the opposite direction, which means that half my fights start off with the rear end of my fleet facing the opponent as they try to avoid collision (not ideal). If this is ameliorated by tactics please advise, otherwise maybe the newtonian flight needs to be adjusted because AI gonna AI.

Also, like other have mentioned the orbital stations are spinning/rotating very quickly which does a few things. Firstly, it instantly destroys frigates and most destroyers if they get clipped by the spinning arms, which they often do because they can't fly very well as stated above. Even paragons were getting slapped by the orbital station, which was obviously hilarious but also a little disappointing, since the ship with over 12000 range energy weapons should not be ramming orbital stations. The second problem is that the station's guns have a really hard time hitting their targets when they are spinning around this quickly, since their tracking speed is insufficient in most cases to hold a firing solution. The third problem is that this makes the station extremely difficult to damage, since it is rotating fresh shields into the firing line really quickly, distributing the incoming flux over many capacitors. In short, the orbital station is nigh unkillable.

I am still experimenting, of course. These were just my impressions after about 4 hours with the mod.
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MrNage

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2022, 01:57:59 PM »

So far, the mod renders PD solutions utterly useless, at least in their intended role: the extended range causes all PD to engage anything within range, causing their magazines to deplete, and seems to have trouble tracking the drastically accelerated missiles. The targeting AI also seems to not account for the increased projectile velocity, causing turrets to fire their munitions into the ether. Also, the speed of the missiles seem to break hit registration: Hammer torpedoes fly so fast that they go right through their targets, and have the somewhat hilarious side-effect of spinning ships like a Shepherd when they go past ships at a certain angle.

In the meanwhile, is there a way to disable all the features other than the damage calculations? It would probably be best to test that aspect of the mod alone.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2022, 02:06:58 PM »

This mod is a total conversion by every conceivable definition and it really doesn't work alongside most other mods especially highly scripted ones.

It would be best for innumerable reasons if you gave it the total conversion tag in the mod info file.

Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2022, 02:48:56 PM »

Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar

So basically this is the best mod ever created by man

Ok, I have some bad news.  I had no idea what you meant when you referred to the docking scene and figured you liked it.  It turns out you meant this:

Hello, did I understand correctly that orbital stations rotate at high speed too?
I just noticed that it rotates very very fast and when shooting at it, my head starts spinning too :D

And that was an unintended change.  Stations should be back to their usual slow rotation.

Kakroom

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2022, 02:50:33 PM »

Okay so this mod basically turns every station fight into the docking scene from Interstellar

So basically this is the best mod ever created by man

Ok, I have some bad news.  I had no idea what you meant when you referred to the docking scene and figured you liked it.  It turns out you meant this:

Hello, did I understand correctly that orbital stations rotate at high speed too?
I just noticed that it rotates very very fast and when shooting at it, my head starts spinning too :D

And that was an unintended change.  Stations should be back to their usual slow rotation.

Sadge
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Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2022, 02:51:08 PM »

Testing this mod, so far I'm concerned about amount of flickering long range beams

Gotta enable anti-aliasing to avoid flickering at high zoom.  Adding this to the FAQ.

Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2022, 03:16:30 PM »

I made an account to comment on this mod, absolutely stoked about it.

Wow!  That is quite a compliment.  Thank you, General Vash! :D

Quote
I love how missiles feel, super snappy in a lot of cases and really threatening, much unlike a lot of the vanilla missile systems which move too slowly and can be outrun in some cases (makes no sense for missiles in space to move slower than a much, much more massive target).

Yep, that's just what I was going for!

Quote
I also love the range dynamics and armor mechanics, although I don't really get to feel how much of an impact the armor is making because there isn't an easy visual indication of a ricochet or a non-penetrating shot. It would be nice if it had a different color impact on penetration, or if glancing blows really obviously zinged off to the sides to show that no damage was done (maybe it already does something along these lines and I am just blind).

A kinetic ballistic projectile will ricochet if it deals no damage, but I have no indicators for the rest.  I wonder what I could do about it.

Quote
A few points of contention: the pilots seem to have no idea how to fly. They constantly accelerate too much and overshoot their target location, resulting in a panicked 180 degree turn and full thrust in the opposite direction, which means that half my fights start off with the rear end of my fleet facing the opponent as they try to avoid collision (not ideal). If this is ameliorated by tactics please advise, otherwise maybe the newtonian flight needs to be adjusted because AI gonna AI.

The field manual mentions that you shouldn't dive in, and I can expound on that in the FAQ, but the problem remains that the AI might just not get it, even after the fight begins.

Quote
Also, like other have mentioned the orbital stations are spinning/rotating very quickly which does a few things. Firstly, it instantly destroys frigates and most destroyers if they get clipped by the spinning arms, which they often do because they can't fly very well as stated above. Even paragons were getting slapped by the orbital station, which was obviously hilarious but also a little disappointing, since the ship with over 12000 range energy weapons should not be ramming orbital stations. The second problem is that the station's guns have a really hard time hitting their targets when they are spinning around this quickly, since their tracking speed is insufficient in most cases to hold a firing solution. The third problem is that this makes the station extremely difficult to damage, since it is rotating fresh shields into the firing line really quickly, distributing the incoming flux over many capacitors. In short, the orbital station is nigh unkillable.

That was a bug!  Sorry!  They weren't supposed to be changed at all.

Quote
I am still experimenting, of course. These were just my impressions after about 4 hours with the mod.

Holy cow!  Four hours!   Wooooo! :D

Kwbr

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2022, 05:37:33 PM »

well this seems intriguing but 'compatible out-of-the-box with all mods' is blatantly untrue from what i've tested

i should clarify- it doesn't crash and does apply its changes to every mod, which is where i have a problem with this being "compatible". i don't really think you can call it compatible with all other mods when it forces blanket changes to every other mod with zero preservation of those mods original designs or intentions.

the scy zone scorcher now has a refire delay of 0.07, for example
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 05:43:43 PM by Kwbr »
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Liral

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2022, 06:01:18 PM »

well this seems intriguing but 'compatible out-of-the-box with all mods' is blatantly untrue from what i've tested

i should clarify- it doesn't crash and does apply its changes to every mod, which is where i have a problem with this being "compatible". i don't really think you can call it compatible with all other mods when it forces blanket changes to every other mod with zero preservation of those mods original designs or intentions.

the scy zone scorcher now has a refire delay of 0.07, for example

Fair enough: I'll say it 'runs out-of-the-box with all mods'. :)  I need help finding consistent indications of designer intent to convert weapon performance to Realistic Combat standards while respecting original designs.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 06:13:12 PM by Liral »
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BreenBB

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2022, 11:25:05 PM »

Speaking of weapons, some of mod ones seems not affected, like Jackall Slicers from DME, they are Composite slot Ballistic weapons, most of Composite or Hybrid weapons often have in description things like "count as Ballistic or Energy or Missile weapon for stat modifiers" I think you can use it to detect to which weapon type Hybrid or Composite weapon belongs. Also interesting how mod chooses which weapon is autocannon and which not, most of mod minigun type weapons are now slow firing weapons.

Also missiles now are better, but too much maybe, Reapers accelerate almost immediately so you have no way to dodge them, missiles have super speed now, which makes them both hard to avoid and side-mounted missiles on your own ship sometimes can't hit target which is in front of ship due to overly high velocity. Also about config option, maybe add one which affect lifetime of missiles? For example if I want leave same acceleration of missiles but want to be sure what they will fly further.

And another issue, autofiring weapons seems like they took wrong target leading, when ship moves sideways due to innertia. Its seems like problem with all "realistic" space speed mods, got one X4 mod, and there also auto firing weapons took wrong target lead because leading do not count inertia and sideway moving at all and its simply fires into wrong direction, I have Targeting Pip mod, its clearly seen what its in wrong direction.

Also how refireDelays section config works? What do I need to select if I want to try leave vanilla firerates for example.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 11:28:36 PM by BreenBB »
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Kakroom

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2022, 11:52:08 PM »

This mod doesn't play nice with the missiles from Diable. They just schwoosh around their target in a massive swarm without ever actually impacting it.

edit: I think it's more than the missiles from diable

Diable is a good example though
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Yendorc

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2022, 12:01:18 AM »

Yeah, I really think this should be labled as Total conversion.

There is no telling how other mods react to this, as already mentioned with diable.
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Proxima-b

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Re: [0.95.1a][v1.0.2] Realistic Combat
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2022, 04:39:36 AM »

Somthing like advanced optics and energy weapon mastery are mostly useless, these stats should be changed accrodingly
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