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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: New music for Galatia Academy (06/12/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Realistic Combat 2.0.6  (Read 300150 times)

Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1065 on: January 22, 2024, 10:28:50 AM »

Actually it might be that the only missile I had was a Breach missile, perhaps not vanilla. But as tactical laser (vanilla) had a super range while my missiles did not, I assumed it was all working as planned.
So perhaps not, and it was because it is not a vanilla missile? IDK really ...

The Breach SRM is a vanilla missile: the range of it and the other missiles is as I intend because missiles must maneuver to hit their targets.  The range of the Tactical Laser and other beam weapons is high because, although their penetration diffracts over distance, they could still be used against unarmored targets at long range, which Realistic Combat gives them.

vorpal+5

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1066 on: January 23, 2024, 12:15:15 AM »

Oh, I see, it makes sense. I would have preferred long-range missiles, but I'll give your mod another try, keeping your comments in mind. What's good is that it can be added or removed dynamically! I've examined how you expanded the battlefield, but it appears you introduced specific variables, probably used in your own functions. I was actually aiming to increase the default battlefield size in vanilla. Is there an easy solution?
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xZarif

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1067 on: January 23, 2024, 08:16:34 AM »

Hi Liral, coming back around for a .96a playthrough. In your Compatibility section, you mention RC will override Quality Captain's skills. Is this still the case? In the below example, the skill text shows Quality Captain's skill and not RC's. Is RC replacing the skill but not the text description? Thanks, I'd love to play these mods together.
https://imgur.com/a/GqmZE7b
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1068 on: January 23, 2024, 03:03:12 PM »

Oh, I see, it makes sense. I would have preferred long-range missiles, but I'll give your mod another try, keeping your comments in mind. What's good is that it can be added or removed dynamically! I've examined how you expanded the battlefield, but it appears you introduced specific variables, probably used in your own functions. I was actually aiming to increase the default battlefield size in vanilla. Is there an easy solution?

Why do you find missiles to be short-ranged?  To adjust the size (and other features) of the map without Realistic Combat, you would need to make your own mod, with a ModPlugin to load a CampaignPlugin to load a BattleCreationPlugin, which you could copy from vanilla and modify.

Hi Liral, coming back around for a .96a playthrough. In your Compatibility section, you mention RC will override Quality Captain's skills. Is this still the case? In the below example, the skill text shows Quality Captain's skill and not RC's. Is RC replacing the skill but not the text description? Thanks, I'd love to play these mods together.
https://imgur.com/a/GqmZE7b

Thanks for the report.  I will investigate.

xZarif

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1069 on: January 24, 2024, 04:37:05 PM »

Sure thing. In the meantime, I'd like to know more about how Realistic Combat's damage model changes interact with skills and hullmods. My understanding is skills that modify damage need replacing, based on how your mod overwrites vanilla's Energy Weapon Mastery. For a skill like in the below screenshot, do any of those stat mods function with RC?

https://imgur.com/a/epSruQR

I'm curious about other stat mods as well but I'll settle for knowing about this example for now. Thanks.
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1070 on: January 26, 2024, 10:03:47 AM »

Sure thing. In the meantime, I'd like to know more about how Realistic Combat's damage model changes interact with skills and hullmods. My understanding is skills that modify damage need replacing, based on how your mod overwrites vanilla's Energy Weapon Mastery. For a skill like in the below screenshot, do any of those stat mods function with RC?

https://imgur.com/a/epSruQR

I'm curious about other stat mods as well but I'll settle for knowing about this example for now. Thanks.

The Realistic Combat damage model ignores damage modification skills and hullmods, both of which I mean for Realistic Combat to replace with its own.  If you see otherwise, then please tell me.

xZarif

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1071 on: January 26, 2024, 08:56:19 PM »


The Realistic Combat damage model ignores damage modification skills and hullmods, both of which I mean for Realistic Combat to replace with its own.  If you see otherwise, then please tell me.

There were three different skills listed in that screenshot that I'm curious about. Are you implying that damage to shields is ignored and range/speed interact correctly with RC? Or does the entire skill get ignored?

If damage to shields doesn't work with CR, then does Hardened Shields do anything?

EDIT: In my testing, I did find the Damage to Shields works correctly, so I have to wonder the exact parameters of the RC damage model ignoring damage mod skills and hullmods.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 06:30:47 AM by xZarif »
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TheRealCone

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1072 on: January 31, 2024, 08:01:03 AM »

Is there meant to be any sounds when a projectile hits a ship? I cannot hear any impacts. If this wasn't missing impact sounds/effects then this would be perfect
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1073 on: January 31, 2024, 01:22:36 PM »

There were three different skills listed in that screenshot that I'm curious about. Are you implying that damage to shields is ignored and range/speed interact correctly with RC? Or does the entire skill get ignored?

If damage to shields doesn't work with CR, then does Hardened Shields do anything?

EDIT: In my testing, I did find the Damage to Shields works correctly, so I have to wonder the exact parameters of the RC damage model ignoring damage mod skills and hullmods.

Realistic Combat replaces the damage model entirely when a projectile or beam hits a ship directly but that it modifies the damage of a shield hit and then lets it proceed as normal: shield damage modification skills but not ship damage modification skills work.  That said, I wonder if I should covert shield damage to flux directly, now that you mention it.

Is there meant to be any sounds when a projectile hits a ship? I cannot hear any impacts. If this wasn't missing impact sounds/effects then this would be perfect

Realistically, you shouldn't hear any impacts, but since you can hear other things, I'll add it to the roadmap.

TheWildcat77

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1074 on: January 31, 2024, 04:55:20 PM »

amazing mod
although some ships take way too long to die, probably something with how armor is simulated, they just keep taking several minutes of fire even though every single weapon keeps getting disabled

been playing some more, there's something wrong with the armor changes, even a broadsword fighter just takes too long to die

disabling the damage model changes makes beam weapons extremely OP, not sure how to proceed
« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 08:33:31 PM by TheWildcat77 »
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1075 on: February 01, 2024, 03:01:35 PM »

amazing mod
although some ships take way too long to die, probably something with how armor is simulated, they just keep taking several minutes of fire even though every single weapon keeps getting disabled

been playing some more, there's something wrong with the armor changes, even a broadsword fighter just takes too long to die

disabling the damage model changes makes beam weapons extremely OP, not sure how to proceed

Use high damage ones to deal damage to high armor rating ships because the damage model simulates armor rating as armor thickness and weapon damage as armor penetration.  Would you please tell me how to reproduce the result with the Broadsword?

TheWildcat77

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1076 on: February 01, 2024, 04:20:46 PM »

i've been using high intensity laser beams on most of my ships, after messing around with the values in the damage model i think the compartment system is at blame? hitting ships with reaper torps will still delete them. while the reaper still does absurd damage, harpoons and hurricanes seen lackluster compared to vanilla
just guessing around, but i think the armor reduction factor is still at play even after u degrade the armor, which is why thinks take so long to die
or maybe it's the compartment damage mechanic that remains active even after said compartment is "destroyed"?

most fighters have an unusually long life, it's more noticeable with broadswords
pd lasers just take forever to kill strikecraft that hav just a bit more armor than usual, the spark interceptor really struggles with killing other strikecraft as well, probably because of the way beam damage is reduced against anything with =>100 armor

i recall hitting broadswords with 2x intensity lasers and it taking more or less 15 seconds of fire to take it down - the fighter wasn't raising shields either, it was just tanking it




couldnt find a way to toggle out of the weaponry damage changes whitout toggling the range changes and velocity changes too,  i would like to play with the different engagement present in the mod but with the vanilla weapon damage and vanilla ship damage models
« Last Edit: February 01, 2024, 06:44:53 PM by TheWildcat77 »
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1077 on: February 02, 2024, 08:35:31 AM »

i've been using high intensity laser beams on most of my ships, after messing around with the values in the damage model i think the compartment system is at blame? hitting ships with reaper torps will still delete them. while the reaper still does absurd damage, harpoons and hurricanes seen lackluster compared to vanilla
just guessing around, but i think the armor reduction factor is still at play even after u degrade the armor, which is why thinks take so long to die
or maybe it's the compartment damage mechanic that remains active even after said compartment is "destroyed"?

In Realistic Combat, armor cells are non-essential compartments, destroying which inflicts bonus damage to the hull.  Once destroyed, that bonus decreases dramatically.  Meanwhile, fully penetrating the armor deals any compartment damage plus full damage straight to the hull.

Quote
most fighters have an unusually long life, it's more noticeable with broadswords
pd lasers just take forever to kill strikecraft that hav just a bit more armor than usual, the spark interceptor really struggles with killing other strikecraft as well, probably because of the way beam damage is reduced against anything with =>100 armor

i recall hitting broadswords with 2x intensity lasers and it taking more or less 15 seconds of fire to take it down - the fighter wasn't raising shields either, it was just tanking it

Beams can't penetrate the full thickness of armor to deal damage to the citadel.  I am working on them, though.

Quote
couldnt find a way to toggle out of the weaponry damage changes whitout toggling the range changes and velocity changes too,  i would like to play with the different engagement present in the mod but with the vanilla weapon damage and vanilla ship damage models

Yeah, weapon spec modification is all at once.

TheWildcat77

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1078 on: February 02, 2024, 12:51:52 PM »

i would like to play with the different engagement present in the mod but with the vanilla weapon damage and vanilla ship damage models

is it possible to have this option?
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Liral

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Re: [0.96a] Realistic Combat 1.37.2
« Reply #1079 on: February 02, 2024, 03:54:27 PM »

is it possible to have this option?

It isn't now.  I'll add it to the roadmap, though it's a distant prospect at best.
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