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[Space Cowboy]

I don't like putting xyphos on long range builds because the ion beams stay inactive the vast majority of the time, but they are very good at discouraging flankers which are otherwise a big weakness of sniper builds. They also give you some rear facing pd which is something the legion notably lacks.

Bombers are another story entirely. In AI they suck because the AI chooses targets entirely at random, accomplishing nothing but burning through replacement rate. The only exception would be the astral which can still score kills due to the sheer volume of bombers it can field, and maybe the heron with triple cobra although that one is useless against anything but capitals and stations.

On the other hand bombers are very good in player hands on a legion, especially when you use squalls to overwhelm and distract enemy pd during a bombing run.

Video evidence:

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Scorecard:

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Nice! That seems fun to play, I've never actually tried using bombers for the PC ship. I might give it a go on an astral as well.

[BigBrainEnergy]

Thaago's post has made me realize I've been sleeping on the gladius, and after trying it out I'd like to update my original recommendation: try 3 gladius 1 claw. Not too taxing on the replacement rate and an excellent cost/effectiveness ratio. They're much closer in speed to the claws and it really shows.

[Kos135]

I've tooled around with the vanilla Legion a bit and the best I came up with basically amounted to a gimped Onslaught with cheap fighters. The two common criticisms of the ship are true, it's weakened by its split role and it doesn't have enough OP to adequately fulfill either role. Whatever you outfit the Legion to do, another ship can do better.
I haven't used the XIV Legion extensively but a lot of people seem to like it, and I can see the 2x large missile slots turning it into a decent brawler with 2x Cyclones.

Whenever I start thinking about a build for the vanilla Legion I ask myself, "Why wouldn't you just take an Onslaught or an Astral?" If you're building your Legion like a battleship then it's beaten by the Onslaught, if you're focusing on fighters then it's beaten by the Astral.

I know the idea is for the Legion to be a frontline ship but I don't think it should have Burn Drive as its system. I think it should have more top speed, let's say 40, and a ship system that will help it in battle. Maybe Damper Field, or something to buff its fighters? This will also make it more amenable to long range support builds.

[Grievous69]

Please no Damper field capitals. It's not a bad idea to buff its speed and give it a different system but what could it even be to not mimic another ship? Something for fighters could be nice but the problem with such systems is that they usually pigeonhole the ship into using only one type of them. Take Astral for example.

[vladokapuh]

nononono
keep the burn drive

[Kos135]

Something for fighters could be nice but the problem with such systems is that they usually pigeonhole the ship into using only one type of them. Take Astral for example.

Since the Legion is a frontline ship that is likely deploying heavy fighters/interceptors into the thick of battle, maybe it should get an entirely new ship system that increases its fighter replacement rate and fighter reserves? Although that sounds more like the passive effect of a hullmod than a system that is activated at certain times. Honestly I'm not sure what it should be.

Speaking of new stuff for carriers, we really need some good fighter-related hullmods. Expanded Deck Crew and Recovery Shuttles are both useless.

[Grievous69]

You literally explained Reserve Deployment that Drover and Gemini have hahahahaha.

[Kos135]

I thought about Reserve Deployment but that incentivizes you to take fighter wings with a certain number of fighters in the wing: https://starsector.fandom.com/wiki/Reserve_Deployment

Fighter wings with a count between 1-3 receive +1 fighter from Reserve deployment, 4-5 receive +2, 6 receives +3. This means fighter wings with 1, 4 and 6 as their base count receive an optimal bonus from Reserve Deployment. Cobra, Talon, Flash, Lux and Wasp are the only wings with a count of 1, 4 or 6.

But hey, any fighter wing would benefit from it. It's just that some benefit more than others. Maybe Reserve Deployment should be the Legion's new system? Right now it's only being used on the Gemini and Drover, and there's nothing inherently midline-y about it.

Edit: Oh yeah, Mining Pod Drone Wing has a base count of 4 as well. All hail the new Mining Pod Legion meta lol

[Maethendias]

the legion is a force mulitplier, and its really good at it
in essence, dont treat it as a carrier or capital ship killer, because it is neither, its a ship basically designed to close any possible weakness in your fleet composition

which also means its a really good flagship

[Grievous69]

I'd argue it ruins the fleet composition since it adds flight decks to a fleet that will never be fully utilized, and adds a frontline body to your fights that will die quicker than real capitals who brawl at close range. XIV variant at least has large missiles so its flux doesn't have to suffer as much.

[smithney]

I'd argue it ruins the fleet composition since it adds flight decks to a fleet that will never be fully utilized, and adds a frontline body to your fights that will die quicker than real capitals who brawl at close range. XIV variant at least has large missiles so its flux doesn't have to suffer as much.

From my personal perspective, you hit the nail on the head. I've had the most success when I treated Legion as a solitary unit. Naturally, that means it gets to be a master of none, overshadowed by other options if you try to outfit it for a specific role.

I don't think that makes Legion bad, it's just that it doesn't meet the expectations players have for it. As OP put it: underwhelming. This is why I argued for a built-in logistics hullmod, so that players are motivated to use Legion in a setting where it shines. Imo it makes most for a viable exploration platform and a cool flagship.

[BigBrainEnergy]

If we're talking about why you would bring the legion, wouldn't the best comparison be 2 legions vs 1 onslaught + 4 condors? Same DP and fighter bays in total. Sure, one legion is less powerful than an onslaught, but it's much more powerful than 4 condors.

[Amoebka]

wouldn't the best comparison be 2 legions vs 1 onslaught + 4 condors?

The best comparison would be Onslaught + 2 Moras, which is not even close in term of power despite being same DP. Legion is an OK ship when you want to round out a fleet that otherwise lacks missile/fighter power, but you should never bring more than one.

[Thaago]

@BigBrainEnergy
The AI does often waste bomber strikes when it doesn't have orders, but you can give them orders! I like to put my different carriers in different command groups (usually interceptors in group 1, bombers in group 2) and then all I need to do to coordinate strikes is press the number and right click on a target.

For Thunders, I wouldn't mix them with Gladii just because Thunders are so much faster and have such longer range that I always use them in pure wings. When I did my low tech playthrough I had 4 Condors with Thunders in group 1, and I used them to pick off enemy frigates one after another from outside of the enemy's sight range, or use them as a "rapid response team" to help destroyers in duels by fluxing up and disabling whatever they were shooting at. Very order intensive, but actually effective!

Also one thing that I recall and I think is true but its been a while: if some of your ships are assigned to a rally point, then given another direct order (like fighter strike) I'm pretty sure then the second order expires they go back to their rally point.

[Plantissue]

The Legion is one of those ships that seem to do better in actual fleet situations than in the sim. Possibly because the sim Onslaught is the choice of foe and the sim Onslaught just throws a big mass of Annhiliators for almost a minute straight, which either forces you to make a ship capable of negating those annhiliators, wait them out, or simply powerful enough to flux out the Sim Onslaught. Curiously enough I loaded up a save a long time ago where I was using Legions, and I had 4 Legions in widely different configurations. I guess I must have been trying out Legions and never found a single optimal configuration I liked, or viewed that widely different configurations as being able to face a wide variety of fleets without a specific weakness.