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Author Topic: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st  (Read 241933 times)

PieceOfGood

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #360 on: February 01, 2024, 12:15:06 AM »

I support this.

And one more idea on how to add more control to the extraction of exotic modules while complicating the process itself: make it so that after defeating an enemy fleet, if its ships had such modifications with a quality higher than usual, then exotic shards of the corresponding one would be added to the resulting list of extraction quality, and removing the installed modules would turn them into these unified shards in the same way, with the only difference being that if you remove these shards, more would be guaranteed, but you would have to spend a lot of money on “Orbital Works” with “Pristine Nanoforge” .

Exotic shards could then be exchanged for entire exotic modules in the appropriate markets, with a less favorable exchange rate the worse the relationship with the faction that owns this market.

In this way, it is possible to organize the emission of the value that exotic modules represent and supply them to enemy fleets without sparing the player. That is, make it so that even if the enemy fleet has the maximum number of different types of exotic modules of green quality installed on all ships, then when you defeat it, the final loot will not contain even a quarter of the required number of exotic shards to exchange for a whole module.

I don't know if that would be very easy to code but anything to increase the NPC's use of exotics while not making them really easy to acquire for the player would be awesome.

By the way, you mentioned that you switched back to the previous mod version and I was wondering if that's save breaking for any save files that already had the latest version or if you can downgrade without problems?
Any complication of the system requires some solutions. It seems to me that the last proposal could be a compromise between leaving everything as it is (which is no good) and coming up with new regulators focused solely on rarity and randomness.

In the state for 1.8.5, it turns out that the player will sooner or later get what he strives for, and the world around him will remain naked and incapable of any action against him. Given that, as you know, money is not a problem in this game, it turns out that regular quality modules are available without any conditions. You just need to take the time to search the planetary markets.

And with the proposal above, it seems that this is even closer to the lore of the very exclusivity of the term “exotic”, since in their pure form such modules should be very expensive to obtain.

Consider that each type of exotic adds/expands the capabilities of the ship, and each type also has gradations in quality, which are also strategically applicable to their situations. This gives rise to quite a large variety of combinations of how each ship in your fleet behaves in battle on its own, or under your leadership. This is very cool! But having this mechanism breaks the balance if the opposing side does not have something similar in the same equivalent as the player.

Since regular quality exotics are available for money, I think this is an excellent entry point into using new mechanics. At any stage of the game, there are many easy ways to make good money. But the use of exotic modules of a different quality should already be a matter of fine tuning. You can't just give the player such powerful modifiers via "cut/paste".

If you use only randomness/rarity as a regulator, you may encounter a situation where, after spending a significant amount of time, you end up obtaining modules of a different quality, but they will not be the ones you need for your playing style.

Then you need to have some kind of exchange mechanism so that the time spent is not simply wasted, and the enemy fleets encountered, due to this rarity, will be ordinary, while the player's fleet will grow in its capabilities.

For that last proposal allows you to supply enemy fleets with exotics to the fullest, without worrying that the exotic equipment installed on them will simply be “cut/pasted”. Plus, it looks pretty lore. Modules are produced on planets from rare components. When ships are damaged in battles, only a small part of them can be extracted from the clouds of debris, and in order to extract more, you need to take the surviving hull to where there are orbital workshops, where some part will still be lost during extraction, since the modules are not removable.

All this in itself turns into a whole set of restrictions, forcing you to face a dilemma: agree that you will only get crumbs for future opportunities, or drag the surviving ships across the entire space, spending resources on their delivery, only to then spend even more only for the guarantee that even in the best scenario you will have to make a dozen more such flights in order to accumulate the required number of exotic shards to exchange for an entire module on the planetary market...

I see the culmination of justice here.

If you want to be the most powerful daddy in the sector, go and work. In addition, you have clear instructions about what to do and how, and not just an ephemeral belief in a chain of chance, among which you may someday get lucky.

You can also give the player the opportunity to mine these rare elements, like other resources are mined from planets and asteroids. Then those who begin their journey not with headhunting, but with more peaceful initiatives, will also not be left at a loss.

Yes, I typed a lot of letters here, but I really liked the concept of exotic modifications and upgrades because it gives the game new shades and impressions.

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Everything works fine when returning to the previous version. Don't forget to make a new save just in case.


I've noticed that Equalizer Core behaves oddly on modules. It seems the core applies to the module during simulations, but will instead apply to the main ship in "real" battles for some reason.
Pay attention to the hint for the exotic module if you are playing with version 1.8.5. It is likely that at the time of the actual battle, your fleet no longer meets the conditions under which the effects of these exotics should begin to work.
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #361 on: February 01, 2024, 08:02:46 PM »

Thanks for the info!
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Uther Phobos

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #362 on: February 02, 2024, 12:47:46 PM »

I've noticed that Equalizer Core behaves oddly on modules. It seems the core applies to the module during simulations, but will instead apply to the main ship in "real" battles for some reason.
Pay attention to the hint for the exotic module if you are playing with version 1.8.5. It is likely that at the time of the actual battle, your fleet no longer meets the conditions under which the effects of these exotics should begin to work.
Read again. The Equalizer Core is affecting a module it isn't even installed on. And i somewhat doubt the base range of the weapons randomly changed between the refit screen and battle.
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #363 on: February 05, 2024, 12:58:14 PM »

Has anyone tried to see if the 1.8 versions of this works with the latest version of Starsector? 
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presidentmattdamon

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #364 on: February 05, 2024, 01:38:39 PM »

Has anyone tried to see if the 1.8 versions of this works with the latest version of Starsector?

it won't have an issue, just change the mod info json

i haven't updated it officially yet because theres some content i want to add to the mod
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #365 on: February 05, 2024, 03:38:16 PM »

Has anyone tried to see if the 1.8 versions of this works with the latest version of Starsector?

it won't have an issue, just change the mod info json

i haven't updated it officially yet because theres some content i want to add to the mod

Thanks and very excited to see what it is!
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Valikdu

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #366 on: February 11, 2024, 03:37:39 AM »

Pure Plasma Flux Catalyst behaves strangely; before I installed it it showed a maximum of 16 capacitors and vents with 250% increase of effeciency, and after installation it's only 11 with 62%.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2024, 03:40:25 AM by Valikdu »
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Uther Phobos

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #367 on: February 11, 2024, 09:11:14 AM »

Pure Plasma Flux Catalyst behaves strangely; before I installed it it showed a maximum of 16 capacitors and vents with 250% increase of effeciency, and after installation it's only 11 with 62%.
Remember, pures are inversely proportional to the number of other Exotica mods installed on the ship. For full bonus, you can't have any other mods.
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #368 on: February 17, 2024, 01:01:58 PM »

Has anyone tried to see if the 1.8 versions of this works with the latest version of Starsector?

it won't have an issue, just change the mod info json

i haven't updated it officially yet because theres some content i want to add to the mod

Sorry to bother you but I had a quick question about your next update.  Do you think it might break saves that are using the current mod version?  I was debating as to whether or not to start my first 0.97 game yet but thought I might ask about this first to decide whether to wait until your next release or not.
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DanteAyagawe

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #369 on: February 26, 2024, 10:24:01 AM »

Are we able to salvage Exotica Upgrades? or Can we only salvage them from recovered ships?
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presidentmattdamon

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #370 on: February 26, 2024, 10:27:52 AM »

Has anyone tried to see if the 1.8 versions of this works with the latest version of Starsector?

it won't have an issue, just change the mod info json

i haven't updated it officially yet because theres some content i want to add to the mod

Sorry to bother you but I had a quick question about your next update.  Do you think it might break saves that are using the current mod version?  I was debating as to whether or not to start my first 0.97 game yet but thought I might ask about this first to decide whether to wait until your next release or not.

won't break saves.

Are we able to salvage Exotica Upgrades? or Can we only salvage them from recovered ships?

they are salvaged as normal salvage (like supplies, metals, fuel) and also on ships that you recover. next update will add an option that lets you see recoverable ship upgrades post-battle, which makes it a lot easier.
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #371 on: February 26, 2024, 03:37:45 PM »

Oh very nice cool!  Thanks!
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PieceOfGood

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #372 on: February 28, 2024, 05:29:16 AM »

... next update will add an option that lets you see recoverable ship upgrades post-battle, which makes it a lot easier.

Excellent news!

It would also be great to be able to see all types of exotic quality for the ship being reviewed, for cases where a specific type has already been installed.

It’s not something you can’t live without, but while you spend a long time collecting upgrades in the far corners of the sector, you completely forget what new upgrades were in the orange box.

If you open it from the inventory, then it has such a terrible sorting, where exotic modules are scattered among a bunch of different upgrades, and even modules of the same type, but of different quality, are not located next to each other.

In general, it is most convenient to draw conclusions based on the installation menu, but if some exotic module is already installed, then if there are other modules of this type, but of a different quality, then they are not visible. Having to switch to another ship that should NOT have the same module installed just to see if there are any options.

Thank you for your work!
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WatchWolf

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #373 on: February 28, 2024, 11:32:57 PM »

I may be seeing things where there is nothing but is there some dev side hate for hacked missile forge? It was in a relatively fine state cutting missile reserves but allowing missile spam over time. It had its own issues not affecting synergy, universal, or composite mounts but I fixed that myself back in the day. The 50% cut would require other mods to offset and sometimes would result in running out of missiles pre-relaod where the engagement would have not been long enough to require it will a full rack. Then it transitioned to a 25% damage nerf which was fine and mitigable through the use of other mods, but 40% seems incredibly steep. For the most part you only run out of missiles on smaller ships and having played several full galaxy/conquest playthroughs the exotica mod only comes into play when I am farming 3 stacks of [REDACTED]/MESS or super bosses/enemies like the Hiver, Legio Infernalis, 2 mil IBBs, or certain seeker unknown fights. In my many runs I have never run into a pure or guerilla version of the hacked missile forge either, I suspect they do not exist. I am currently just maintaining the 1.7.3 release of the mod myself since the nerfs just felt over tuned. Heck I even picked up java again just so I can have the new bug fixed version and also reduce the missile damage nerf to a more reasonable level. HMF is high tier but I don't think its the best exotica even in its 25% nerf or half ammo form. In its strongest state I used other exotica fleet wide, even when I went full missile sector it wasn't my highest used exotica. There are other far stronger options than HMF, but I sort of hesitate to name them for fear of them receiving the HMF treatment. Heck in HMF's current state at 40% dmg nerf I would actively want to see it in enemy fleets since not only will the AI get low value from it they are likely to die before the ammo even reloads. The change log specifically mentions the creators wish for other exoticas to be used and while infinite missiles is a solid pick other things are actively stronger with less build requirements. Its the Devs vision, they can and should make things as they see fit but HMF feels like its in the same spot as metalstorm right now. Just actively making what its on worse. Its a singleplayer game and internal balance is important for mods but maybe let missile sector be supported again by this mod rather than what feels like an active disdain for the build choice. Ultimately its up to the mod author and if they just want missiles and HMF to be a net power negative so be it. Maybe just don't have it spawn on enemy fleets since in its current form it makes things much easier, 2400 is less than 4000 after all and that frigate was never living to fire another reaper anyway.
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Shogouki

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Re: [0.96a] Exotica Technologies v1.8.5 - updated Jan 21st
« Reply #374 on: February 29, 2024, 12:55:27 AM »

I may be seeing things where there is nothing but is there some dev side hate for hacked missile forge? It was in a relatively fine state cutting missile reserves but allowing missile spam over time. It had its own issues not affecting synergy, universal, or composite mounts but I fixed that myself back in the day. The 50% cut would require other mods to offset and sometimes would result in running out of missiles pre-relaod where the engagement would have not been long enough to require it will a full rack. Then it transitioned to a 25% damage nerf which was fine and mitigable through the use of other mods, but 40% seems incredibly steep. For the most part you only run out of missiles on smaller ships and having played several full galaxy/conquest playthroughs the exotica mod only comes into play when I am farming 3 stacks of [REDACTED]/MESS or super bosses/enemies like the Hiver, Legio Infernalis, 2 mil IBBs, or certain seeker unknown fights. In my many runs I have never run into a pure or guerilla version of the hacked missile forge either, I suspect they do not exist. I am currently just maintaining the 1.7.3 release of the mod myself since the nerfs just felt over tuned. Heck I even picked up java again just so I can have the new bug fixed version and also reduce the missile damage nerf to a more reasonable level. HMF is high tier but I don't think its the best exotica even in its 25% nerf or half ammo form. In its strongest state I used other exotica fleet wide, even when I went full missile sector it wasn't my highest used exotica. There are other far stronger options than HMF, but I sort of hesitate to name them for fear of them receiving the HMF treatment. Heck in HMF's current state at 40% dmg nerf I would actively want to see it in enemy fleets since not only will the AI get low value from it they are likely to die before the ammo even reloads. The change log specifically mentions the creators wish for other exoticas to be used and while infinite missiles is a solid pick other things are actively stronger with less build requirements. Its the Devs vision, they can and should make things as they see fit but HMF feels like its in the same spot as metalstorm right now. Just actively making what its on worse. Its a singleplayer game and internal balance is important for mods but maybe let missile sector be supported again by this mod rather than what feels like an active disdain for the build choice. Ultimately its up to the mod author and if they just want missiles and HMF to be a net power negative so be it. Maybe just don't have it spawn on enemy fleets since in its current form it makes things much easier, 2400 is less than 4000 after all and that frigate was never living to fire another reaper anyway.

I kind of feel like 40% is steep as well but I don't know just how much the user base was favoring HMF.  I kind of hope another variant will be added that has like 25-30% damage reduction but a reload time of 40-60 seconds as the 24 second reload is nice for small launchers but with Missile Specialization and Expanded Missile Racks most medium and large missile weapons won't need a reload any earlier than 50 seconds and that's only if firing constantly.

Assuming that's not what PresidentMattDamon wants however I wonder if it could be set so that ships like throwaway frigates don't spawn with the HMF so their alpha strike potential with Reapers isn't diminished?  Though you wouldstill want frigates with many missile mounts to still have a chance to spawn with it.  I'm sure something could be figured out if needed but considering how rarely I see HMF anymore I can't imagine it currently makes things that much easier.  Especially since larger ships with more missile weapons having even the current HMF should make up for the few frigates using them.
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