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[lyravega]

Going from point A to point B is a chore in this game. Let me elaborate. Any kind of control impairment is something I absolutely hate in any game. Loss of control, sluggish controls, slow effects, etc... I absolutely hate. And this game is full of these.

• Sustained Burn
Sustained Burn by design adds sluggishness to the controls,
However since it trades precision control with speed I'm somewhat ok with it

• Nebula
Negatively affect your speed with its severity depending on your fleet size
To negate its effects as much as possible, have to fly with a smaller fleet / grab relevant skills, fill your fleed with tugs (maybe). Some solutions invite more hostiles

• 'Hyperclouds'
Same thing as nebulae, however in contrast, covers a big portion of the map
Again, either fly with a smaller fleet, or manually avoid the clouds - which is impractical due to how much hyperspace is occupied by these

• Asteroid fields
You have a chance to collide with one, which not only slows you down, but also throws you off course (especially with sustained burn)
Going slow is safe, however going slow is the problem

• Hyperstorms
Acts like a 'reverse asteroid'; catapulting you forward in somewhat uncontrollable way, and also damaging your ships
Going slow is again safe, and again going slow itself is the problem

• Slipstreams
Supposed to be a 'hyperspace highways' I think, though I've yet to see one that's going to a direction that I'm headed towards
In order to cross one, you need to turn sustained burn off, and depending on the current's speed, you might even need to do an emergency burn to get out without getting way off-course

Now, why have I listed all these? They're the things that I've mentioned earlier; the things I absolutely hate. I don't mind them that much when they are a rare occurrence, like in the system maps, but when they're what feels like 90% of the map in hyperspace, going from point A to point B becomes a chore.

You need bigger fleets to take on bigger enemies, and as you add more combat ships, you also need to add more logistics ships. In essence you get slower and slower. Sure, you can add like 10 tugs to carry your fleet, but then you'll have to resupply like every month to keep up with the drain. You'll have to deal either with the logistics, or the slow movement, one way or another. There are a few things that help with these penalties, mitigating their effects to a degree. However, considering how hyperspace is full of these terrain types, small mitigations are not enough in my opinion.

There are a lot of stuff that unnecessarily limits the pace you travel at, and a few things that are supposed to help you in your travels like the slipstreams or storm boosts you have no control over. As I've mentioned while talking about slipstream above, I've yet to see one that goes to somewhere I'm headed to, and like 99% of the time, it's just another obstacle that I need to avoid, and nothing more. Adds nothing to the gameplay for me, just does the opposite.

I'm aware that there are mods to get rid of hyperspace clouds, or even add a warp function to make getting from A to B faster. However, as far as vanilla experience goes, even at 2x speed the game gets extremely boring in transit. It still is boring in 3x speed.

Those all were the symptoms that I've experienced, and how they all made me feel. Now here are a few suggestions that might make the whole thing better:
• A bigger base map, more distance between the systems, less clouds in between, and even less storms. The whole hyperspace feels extremely concentrated right now, diluting it would help immensely so to speak.
• Tighter control over sustained burn, and / or less control loss when colliding with an asteroid or a storm. Less of an impact when you don't slow down, so to speak.
• A skill to enter the slipstreams, or a toggle to avoid them when you are not going to use them. They look cool, but they don't play nice in my opinion. Maybe somehow manually initiating them to get to wherever you are going faster? They're rare anyway, so it's not a big issue.
• More tools to deal with navigational hazards! For example, a utility ship similar to tug, or a hullmod to reduce the effects of navigational hazards to a degree, just like the 'Navigation' skill, perhaps stacking with a diminishing return. Mitigation is fine as long as they're not encountered on a constant basis!

These are just a few suggestions that might make the vanilla experience better in my opinion. Anyhow, thanks for reading, have a nice day

[baxt]

Sustained burn can feel sluggish but you can just hold shift most of the time and it's not so bad. It also serves a few purposes such as tapping it on and off to give an enemy fleet a brief sensor ping so you can lure them away. I have Go Dark on the number 2 and Sustained Burn on 3 and I'm constantly switching between these 2 depending on the situation. You can also pick up the Sensors skill for a sweet +3 to burn speed when going slow/dark. At first I felt the sluggishness that you mentioned but over time I began to really enjoy these movement options.

Nebulas also present you with another choice weather to go around or through at the cost of supplies.

Asteroid fields are pretty funny. I've been busted smuggling a few times because I was impatiently running through one of these only to get knocked close enough to a local patrol, just get used to holding S as you pass through with a big fleet or if you're out of sensor range of stuff just tap go dark for a second I find that a little quicker that holding S.

Storms have saved me many, many times by allowing me to escape a fleet attempting to intercept me you can also bait the chasing fleets into these and send them on their way. They are also nice with a small efficient survey fleet in the early game, if you have the supplies it just gets you around faster. I like having this option available.

Slipstreams don't last forever but you can easily plan around them, they reverse direction as the cycle goes on. You could potentially use this to your advantage. Use a slipstream to get you far out just before it's about the change direction do your missions and take it right back.

I was talking with my brother last night and we both agreed that Hyperspace in this game is pretty awesome, most games like this have you just teleporting from system to system and that quickly becomes dull. In Starsector there is always opportunities popping up in hyperspace and it makes it feel a lot more dynamic and lived in.

The travel time also seems to help markets restock and whatnot, not sure how it works under the hood though

All in all I find the traveling around in this game to be pretty damn good. Your plans might drastically change depending on what you see in hyperspace

Spoiler

There is also the gates you can get back online for some fast travel options.

[close]

[Kriby]

In a sense I think the hyperspace terrain is there to make travelling less boring!

You make some valid points, though I think it's less of a sticking point for me. That's not to say I exactly enjoy finding screen's worth of storming nebula or sliplane orthogonal to my route.

I think the ideal future for the hyperspace travel part of the game involves effects and events that do not easily boil down to "invest more IRL time/supplies/fuel to get through". Those are fine in my book, but there is some element of repetition.

One thing I think I would like is to see the hyperspace nebula drifting (do they? then more obviously) over time.


There is of course the risk of making hyperspace too cluttered with things, but if the density of obstructions were a bit lessened as you suggest, and everything drifts over time, it may be possible to have more effects at play making things more dynamic.

Two suggestions for hyperspace strangeness:

• Gilded space - A shifting area of hyperspace where material outside of specialized hyperspace shielding for some reason turns brittle and crumbles to dust. Doesn't damage ships, but prevents hull repair. Named for the curious golden sheen it shows as on sensors.
• Heavy space - A region of hyperspace that appears sunken and darker on sensors. Travelling through it is not harmful, exactly, but time will pass more quickly outside of the region than inside it. This has some strange implications for making it to where you want to go in relative time, being chased and so on.

[lyravega]

In a sense I think the hyperspace terrain is there to make travelling less boring!

You make some valid points, though I think it's less of a sticking point for me. That's not to say I exactly enjoy finding screen's worth of storming nebula or sliplane orthogonal to my route.

I think the ideal future for the hyperspace travel part of the game involves effects and events that do not easily boil down to "invest more IRL time/supplies/fuel to get through". Those are fine in my book, but there is some element of repetition.

One thing I think I would like is to see the hyperspace nebula drifting (do they? then more obviously) over time.

There is of course the risk of making hyperspace too cluttered with things, but if the density of obstructions were a bit lessened as you suggest, and everything drifts over time, it may be possible to have more effects at play making things more dynamic.

Two suggestions for hyperspace strangeness:

• Gilded space - A shifting area of hyperspace where material outside of specialized hyperspace shielding for some reason turns brittle and crumbles to dust. Doesn't damage ships, but prevents hull repair. Named for the curious golden sheen it shows as on sensors.
• Heavy space - A region of hyperspace that appears sunken and darker on sensors. Travelling through it is not harmful, exactly, but time will pass more quickly outside of the region than inside it. This has some strange implications for making it to where you want to go in relative time, being chased and so on.

Interesting; hyperspace terrain makes travelling more boring for me. I'm someone who has sunken around 200+ hours into 'Sunless Sea' & 'Sunless Skies' games; in those games, terrain is more or less the same throughout the game, with only differences are the enemies you may encounter, and the odd weather effects pushing you off-course from time to time. Yet I've never found the travel part boring in those games.

Normally I don't mind going around an obstacle, pathing/navigating manually so to speak. I think what's happening to me in this game is, my goals are different here. I crave fights, and from time to time, I'd like to explore around for loot. When the travel part slows me down by a lot, I think it gets to me. Not sure though

Your hyperspace ideas are interesting; different hyperspace regions with different rules could be very interesting. Some landmarks in hyperspace ('hypermarks?') might also be interesting, not exactly special regions, but maybe a drifting hulk that's turned into a shrine by Luddic dudes for example, that kind of thing. Aside from those, a dynamic 'hyperweather' where hyperclouds and hyperstorms drift, dissipate and form at random intervals (weekly? monthly? slowly?!?) or continuously on the whole map, in other words a slowly changing hyperspace terrain could be neat. Global hyperweather events like more clouds / less clouds could also work alongside such a system.

I don't think I would mind those at all, I'd 'set sail' when it's clear, and stick to the core when it's cloudy for example, if that was a thing. Or if a route has become heavily cloudy, I might look for a clearer path, or a slipstream that'd take me back. Such dynamic stuff could even affect the in-system gameplay to a degree as well I think, like jump points getting destabilized for a while, or something like that. Though, the initial / dynamic generator shouldn't generate huge clumps of clouds everywhere, going around should be viable, at the very least it should be possible.

*snip*

Thank you for the reply! I tried storm-baiting an AI once, though it backfired. I'll never try it again As you said, hyperspace not being instant is a good thing on the paper, however in its current form, the repetitiveness of it is what's getting to me I think. Aside from that, the spoiler you mentioned, I hope it'll auto-path in the future. As game goes on, it turns into a very nice time saver, lets see what will happen in the future

[SCC]

Before slipstreams, I used to simply alt-tab out for longer journeys. I could avoid hyperspace storms instead, but it's not necessary. In the current update, I prefer to speedrun the main quest to get JD as quickly as possible.
If you can get boosted with a hyperspace storm before entering the slipstream, your momentum should get you at least halfway across.

[SafariJohn]

I do not enjoy Starsector's travel pacing. I travel with time sped up almost 100% of the time and I speed up travel in the settings a bit on top of that.

A big difference between Sunless Sea and Starsector travel is impassable terrain. When straight line travel is optimal, travel is boring.

[michail]

If I had to choose between "boring" and "annoying", I'd always pick the boring option. In the previous patch, travelling was boring. I used to go dark, turn up the volume, sit back and enjoy some music. Not ideal, but it worked. The new additions didn't really make travelling (to me, at least - YMMV) interesting, they made it annoying. There's always a sequence of perpendicular slipstreams in the way, or those things start circling around my fleet and make noises that do nothing because I'm already going dark and they can't drop my speed anyway. New travel requires more manual interventions just to get from point A to point B, but doesn't add much more to do.

I feel like the intent of slipstreams to make travelling interesting doesn't mesh well with time pressure the most common reason to get out of the core - missions - applies. Difficult to navigate terrain making you to try weird paths and see (and loot, fight in, etc) cool places works wonderfully for Morrowind, as an example - but it doesn't have timed quests AFAIK, you can travel and explore at your leisure. With time pressure, side paths offered by slipstreams become less of a side path and more of an obstacle.

[Locklave]

I hate asteroids. I've made threads about how annoying they are and wish this one thing had a toggle setting to turn off.

Slipstreams seem to be in your way and going the wrong direction 95% of the time. Maybe it's just bad RNG we are experiencing? The few times they were going the right way it was great and the ambushes at the ends of them are actually what pirates would do.

Has anyone experienced Slipstreams mostly going the right/helpful way?

[Jarolegon]

Always take navigation, keep your ships minimal burn at 9 and just completely ignore terrain unless you are trying to do some stealth shenanigans. To minimize supply cost of going through hyperstorms install solar shielding. For slipstreams going in the wrong direction - just use emergency burn, it helps to pass through them with relative ease. If supply cost of emergency burn bothers you then take containment procedures skill.

[Megas]

Has anyone experienced Slipstreams mostly going the right/helpful way?

In my current game, at least 50/50 in my favor.  I am lucky to have my colony system frequently being in the middle of streams, and I ride them for fast travel on the way home.  (I do not have Janus Device yet, but I am working on it.)  Outside of that, streams would probably be in the way more often than not

[intrinsic_parity]

Alex revealed somewhere that slipstreams generally go west->east in the first half of the year and east->west in the second half of the year (I could have that backwards), and since then, I have had more success using them, although still not as frequently as I would hope.

[Ahueh]

I agree with all of your points, and I’m not sure why it doesn’t get more attention on this forum. There is a ton of detail and balance put into the combat in Starsector, but for some reason that tightness doesn’t apply to some other aspects (particularly Exploration, in my opinion). Trading, Raiding, Colony management, and Exploration are essentially minigames that orbit and support the core gameplay loop of Combat --> Reward. Hyperspace travel, (a subcategory of Exploration) serves one function: To act as a modifier on your supplies/fuel - which would be fine if the gameplay around that modifier was interesting, but it’s not.

The gameplay is: Trade your time to mitigate losses to fuel and supplies.

That’s it. There are no interesting choices, there is no skill involved, there is simply micromanagement of slow/sustained/emergency burn and clicking a place on the map. You could gut hyperspace entirely from Starsector, add direct system warping, and not much would change from a gameplay perspective. Slipstreams add some minor interaction (is using this slipstream going to get me to my destination faster?) but they’re more of an annoyance to be ignored and their cost calculated into the amount of extra fuel and supplies I need to bring when they throw me off course as I AFK towards my next destination.

I think your suggestions mitigate some of the annoyance of hyperspace travel, but do nothing to solve the root problem – its still boring.
In addition to what you suggest, the long-term solution would be to add more meaningful choices to what we’re actually doing in hyperspace.

   1)   Long range detection of interesting “side quest” activities. Not another distress beacon leading to either pirates or a guy who will reward me with 10k for some fuel. I need a valid reason to deviate course and explore something nearby. (Short term bounty, orbital station detected in nearby system, etc.)

   2)   Something which differentiates hyperspace in terms of location. Right now all of hyperspace is essentially the same. Other than the fuel required to get back to the core or your colony, being in one place rather than another has almost zero implications. I would suggest a gradient approach – the further you get from the core, the more dangerous hyperspace becomes, (More storms? More enemies?) but the rewards increase as well. Obviously, unless this is well balanced, and unless the current “disengage fleet for a story point” is changed, this just becomes another check on fuel/supplies/story points – still boring.

   3) Add some other points of interest unique only to hyperspace.


Not sure if these would totally solve the problems you listed, but they would be the start of making hyperspace something more than "The space in between the things I actually care about".

[Voracioush]

I think all the things you notated as being annoying add flavor to Starsector and make it interesting.  Especially for new players.  I also use Ruthless sector and hyperspace is great now while before it was just boring AFKing until I get somewhere.

I suggest getting to the end of the quest line for some ease of traveling.  I don't start new games without the quest line finished anymore, but that's because I have made tons of characters.

If anything I think that exploration and hyperspace should have more events like finding floating ghost ships or material/crew/marine checks to get rare loot or a sun goes supernova or finding some abandoned stations and in the same system an asteroid or moon crashes into a planet and you can harvest the ore and put it on the station.  But I'm probably getting sidetracked.

[Thaago]

Once you get a feeling for what kind of loot spawns where, and where to expect habitables/good systems, you can start to do route planning which I find fairly fun. Generally speaking I'll make a loop involving named bounties, accepted missions, good exploration systems, and slipstreams (if I happen to see any in that region before or expect some to be going in that direction).

[Megas]

I tend to wait until very late before doing Academy stuff because I like to smash the near endgame level fleets that get in my way (instead of running for dear life) and to easily pay for the bribes.  On the other hand, doing them late means nice things that need story points to do (like convince beta core to surrender to get a free beta core to stick in my automated ships) are expensive and needs lots of grinding to pay off bonus xp (instead of exploiting it for fast level gain).  Not to mention no stargates.

Probably best to do the academy stuff early-ish.

Re: About ghost ships
Rarely, some fully appear into hyperspace and reveal themselves to be heavily d-modded Remnant fleets (nothing bigger than a Brilliant).  So far, I only found two or three of them at the very edge of the sector.  When I save a game, then reload, sometimes the ghost fleet charges into my fleet and disappears.  Other times, I move around, then the ghost fleet slows down then transforms into heavily d-modded Remnant fleet.