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Author Topic: More broadside ships?  (Read 1309 times)

Nightstrasza

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More broadside ships?
« on: January 10, 2022, 02:25:42 PM »

Like title says, could there be more broadside ships? There's only one for high tech which is Odyssey and one for mid tech which is Conquest. Both are capital ships, nothing smaller, there's none for low tech and everything else is just face full of guns, back full of PD and that's it. I know that next update probably gonna be just players being murdered doritos and whatever else the main character describes and there's already so many ships to choose from, even more if automated ships perk is taken but perhaps low tech could atleast could get some heavy armored broadside? Like, for variety, instead of typical armor all ships have, those would have armor plates like starbases do with "gun ports" sticking out from between the plates.

Here's a very crude explanation of what I mean in a form of paint picture (did not figure out how to paste a picture so here's imgur link to it):

https://imgur.com/a/9iUEw1Z

The shape doesn't matter tho having the ship slim like Odyssey instead of a blob or brick would be nice. The red things around the hull are the armor plates, the blue circles are weapon mounts, the one sin the middle could be something like for missiles, PD or whatever fits, or just the "gun ports", the yellow lines are how much the weapon mount can rotate, so basically, nearly all weapons that are not in the middle or around the engines would be hard mounts or have a very limited line of sight. It would probably be very hard for AI to pilot that and not being able to focus fire on close enemy with all guns could prove very annoying and/or fatal but it would scratch the itch for those that prefer broadside gameplay. Also I know, mods, but all mods are unbalanced making the game too easy and they too also have mostly face mounted weapons, can only trust the dev to fine tune pros and cons of the ship.
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Grievous69

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 01:16:14 AM »

The idea of broadside ships in the game sounds neat, but in practice AI has issues flying them well, optimal builds focus on just one side for assault, while the other is PD + missiles. You end up flying wonky just to hit your targets. And for all I care Conquest is a low tech ship at heart, 95% of its firepower comes from ballistic and missile mounts. It's just a squishy but faster low tech ship.
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SCC

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 01:56:52 AM »

AI Conquests lately seem really awfully unwilling to turn to broadside and keep trying to fly at the first ship they see head on. It makes fights with Conquests much easier.
It's just a squishy but faster low tech ship.
Midline IS faster low-tech, except for ships that get to use large energy weapons, because they are the only ones that don't terribly suck.

Grievous69

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 02:34:24 AM »

Wait this actually reminded me, we already have a low tech broadside ship - Atlas MkII
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TaLaR

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2022, 03:58:15 AM »

Smaller (and faster) broadside ship are impossible to control efficiently. Some modded ones exist and they are hell to try to pilot.

For a small ship, tank controls are not sufficiently precise, and all piloting is done in point to cursor mode. But you also need cursor to control omni shields (forward shields don't make any sense for broadside). And the ships needs to have only auto-fire friendly weapons (since you will be mostly controlling shield).
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 07:48:46 PM by TaLaR »
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Nightstrasza

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2022, 04:45:58 AM »

Wait this actually reminded me, we already have a low tech broadside ship - Atlas MkII

Atlas is full face too, it got 2 big guns with ammo feeder, at most you can angle with it, not really fully broadside.

As to others, yes, I know AI is pretty bad at broadside (probably that's why Odyssey is so stupidly rare I assume) but they are rather effective at using Conquest, at the very least they were last time that played where going after obliterating Askonia or defending from Persean colony raids where they would use their sides effectively and be a major menace. Also yes, optimal build is a one side dakka, the other PD/missiles, perhaps AI should get updated builds so they prefer staying on one side and have more OP for other things, but even then it didn't stop the game from having 2 broadside ships, at least player can use and have fun with, there's so many ships better done by a player, including phase ships... tho considering how absurdly op they are, AI even when stupid manages to do things with them. Still, there's only just 2 broadside ships in existence, feels sad.
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pairedeciseaux

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2022, 03:03:29 PM »

I agree more broadside ships would be welcome. I think adding one compelling destroyer-sized ship that would support symmetric builds could serve as incentive for player to learn/practice this "strange" battle gameplay style.

Today broadside is not super popular because: controls are harder, piloting skills requirements are higher, also situation awareness is very important. Those issues are probably not going to disappear, but having incentive to try broadsiding could be higher with additional ships that you can only use this way.

Having said that,

Vanilla:
  • Shrike is a decent aggressive broadside ship (left side, like Odyssey) especially the pirate version with a kinetic gun
  • Centurion can kind of broadside (3 sides: left, front, right) using its main guns
  • Onslaught too (3.2 sides: left, front, right, rear count as 0.2  ;D ) - in theory general purpose broadside builds are easier to design with 0.95.1 (small ballistic + hullmod) but I have not tried it, and focusing on front facing firepower is so tempting anyway
  • Fury can also broadside (mainly right side when using a medium energy gun in the right-side mount) - AI does that sometimes
Modded: havent played this since a long time, but in case you don't know it, Outer Rim Alliance (often abbreviated ORA) is a fantastic mod - balanced high tech broadside ships dream come true. Looks like it has not been updated for 0.95.1, I'd suggest to keep an eye on it. https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=11646.0

Regarding your broadside concept with armor pieces and weapon hard mounts, I could see this idea being used for drone ships / domain-era survey ships.
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Nightstrasza

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Re: More broadside ships?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2022, 03:27:48 PM »

You could also add Wayfarer to your list as a frigate variant of semi "broadside", you can even observe AIs or even the starting vanilla wayfarer is equipped for fighting at an angle from the right side while the other angle is filled with vulcans.

As for the Domain-era drone ships, makes sense but at the same time it would hurt so much to have to spend 8 points into technology tree to be able to pilot it, and not even with all the combat skills as things like missile mastery more ammo or combat endurance, assume some other piloted ship effects also don't work.
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