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Author Topic: [0.97a] Hiver Swarm - V1.1.2 - 03/27/24  (Read 244345 times)

SneakyDevil

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Honestly, I have... quite a number of faction mods. The Xhan upon second look, have lost everything but the capital. After a few hours of playing in the strike mission and invasion logs, the most common are Persean, Diktat, and tri-tach. Legio never even raided them (and got crushed by me). Hegemony and Ludd have been too busy fighting an eternal crusade against my AI using ass. Guest appearances in raids from the Lanestate, ORA, Junk Yard, Imperium, and Shadowyards (that usually fail).

I don't know anything about starsector modding, how factions work, or how you've coded the faction. But with things like Luna Lib out there, would it be possible to enable the user to adjust settings on the Hiver to give them a little extra boost in a more crowded sector? (Or turn them into the Tyranids)

The idea of a hostile faction gradually encroaching, multiplying to more and more planets, and battering down all the factions is something that def changes up the endgame. But if its a "Lot of work to rework that, you are just using too many factions" situation, that's fine too. Thanks for your work on the mod regardless  :)
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Dazs

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Thank you for the update and clarity, it really helps me better answer.
Honestly, I have... quite a number of faction mods. The Xhan upon second look, have lost everything but the capital. After a few hours of playing in the strike mission and invasion logs, the most common are Persean, Diktat, and tri-tach. Legio never even raided them (and got crushed by me). Hegemony and Ludd have been too busy fighting an eternal crusade against my AI using ass. Guest appearances in raids from the Lanestate, ORA, Junk Yard, Imperium, and Shadowyards (that usually fail).
Well the Xhan are a nicely balanced faction and will eventually succumb to the Hivers which is why I separated them in my initial answer. Their benefit to the sector is that they happen to be directly in the invasion path the Hivers use and, unbeknownst to you, they have been sniping them before you even see them. Legio does not invade them it is just that the Hivers struggle when invading them that they spend so many resources doing so, their other invasion efforts are stunted.

As to invading the Hivers, the more militarist a faction the more they will invade them. The amount of factors that effect their success rate are many. For example, if I see four or more factions invading them at once that can sometimes backfire if those factions do not like each other then they are just as likely to fight each other rather than the Hivers.
I don't know anything about starsector modding, how factions work, or how you've coded the faction. But with things like Luna Lib out there, would it be possible to enable the user to adjust settings on the Hiver to give them a little extra boost in a more crowded sector?
It has been a constant struggle of mine to get them to a good balance structure. I do not want them to be the end game big bad, I'll leave that to the Space Doritos. I feel they are currently good if a player has roughly 6 faction mods installed and they will present a difficult challenge mid game. Now I am aware of LunaLib and use it (what a great mod Lucas04 gave to the community) and I have been meaning to get into incorporating it into my mods. Hiver has so many optional files, it would be nice to have them enabled by LunaLib rather then having to delete and rename files manually but I am not sure if that is a function that can be done since that is a matter of manipulating CSV files and I believe LunaLib modifies Java files. But again, I have not delved too deeply into it and it is on my next round of mod adjustments so stay tuned but no promises that my inept coding can handle that level of awesomeness.
(Or turn them into the Tyranids)
Tyranids eh, the Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition has identified your IP and will soon be paying you a visit.
The idea of a hostile faction gradually encroaching, multiplying to more and more planets, and battering down all the factions is something that def changes up the endgame.
If left alone they will eventually become the big bad but that takes several cycles and is not really recommended. In my games The Hivers generally start by taking over Lud (path and church) outposts and colonies then branching out from there. Then the other factions take notice and start sending Invasion fleets to try and take them back for themselves but the planets are now decivilized and not very profitable so it can actually cripple a faction's economy to take back Hiver planets. The Hivers are more of a nasty pest that is difficult to weed out once they take hold. It is best to build up your fleet and have a decent colony of your own so you can afford to lose capitals and piggy back on a friendly factions invasion and provide support. Eventually the sector will take back Hiver infested planets and with your help, wipe their initial systems off the map.

I do take your meaning though that there should be an option to give them more teeth for players who use a ton of faction mods. If LunaLib isn't the path, then I could add a separate optional file that increases their ship stats and fleet strength vs the AI controlled fleets. Either way it has been on my to-do list and will eventually get done, it is just that usually what happens is one of my other mods cries for my attention and squeaky mod gets the update.
But if its a "Lot of work to rework that, you are just using too many factions" situation, that's fine too. Thanks for your work on the mod regardless  :)
I don't mind the work, I actually enjoy tinkering with the code and learning new things, plus I am retired and have the time. My mods are not done by any stretch but I have been sort of holding off updating them more since the next Star Sector update is impending. 

I appreciate the nice word and the Junk Yard shout out :)

rogerbacon

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I wanted to try this mod but it crashes on loading with the following message:

Code
88494 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
java.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.scripts.HIVERmodPlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.generateBytecodes(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:226)
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:178)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
... 2 more
Caused by: org.codehaus.commons.compiler.CompileException: File 'data/scripts/util.java', Line 445, Column 0: Non-abstract class "starship_legends.Util$1" must implement method "public abstract int java.util.Comparator.compare(java.lang.Object, java.lang.Object)"
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compileError(UnitCompiler.java:10174)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:419)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:658)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.compile2(UnitCompiler.java:622)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler.access$200(UnitCompiler.java:185)
at org.codehaus.janino.UnitCompiler$2.visitAnonymousClassDeclaration(UnitCompiler.java:345)
at org.codehaus.janino.Java$AnonymousClassDeclaration.accept(Java.java:894)

It says the problem is in data/scripts/util.java but i don't even have that file. Very strange.
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Dazs

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Hello there, I will do my best to help but your crash code baffles me atm. The HIVERmodPlugin file:
Code
public class HIVERmodPlugin extends BaseModPlugin {

    @Override
    public void onNewGame() {
boolean haveNexerelin = Global.getSettings().getModManager().isModEnabled("nexerelin");
if (!haveNexerelin || SectorManager.getManager().getCorvusMode()){
            new HIVER_gen().generate(Global.getSector());
        }
    }

Is a very simple one that just ensures Nex is installed. There is no line 445 in the mod so I am assuming it is a conflict with another mod. Now what is really confusing to me is the reference to Starship Legends which I have installed and use myself with no conflicts. I checked that mods files and there is no reference to data/scripts/util.java that I could find there either. I think maybe it is a third mod that is interfering with Starship legends and Hiver Swarm. I know Starship Legends updated last week, do you have the latest version installed?

Maybe Sundog can help since it does reference their work as well, I'll reach out and see if they can make sense of it.

Sundog

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@rogerbacon: This issue seems very similar to the one you had a few months ago: https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15321.msg385922#msg385922

Did my suggestion about reinstalling both mods work in that case? Unfortunately I still can't offer much advice other than that. Like Dazs, I'm not getting any issues when I use Hiver and starship legends together, and I'm not aware of anyone other than you getting this particular type of error.

Dazs

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #395 on: May 12, 2023, 09:53:42 AM »

v1.08b released today - Not save compatible with prior versions
   -Added a blacklist for stelnet that prevents Hiver ships and weapons showing up - Jaghaimo is working on a commodities blacklist and I will add to it once released
   -Updated the mod to work with 0.96a

eidolad

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #396 on: May 13, 2023, 07:24:16 AM »

Howdy getting ready to jump back in with .96 after @8 months not playing.  I noted on the main page that the mod recommends to not play with:

"Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds"

Why does it say this?  My experience has been:  "yes! do play Hiver Swarm with random core worlds"

...in fact I only ever play modded with random core worlds, and Hiver Swarm had been a very interesting addition to the early Nex game.  Hivers do really well in systems where they have a starting advantage...but then the other factions begin to fight back.

Hanging out in their systems in the early game is a high risk/high reward activity.  (I play with Ruthless Sector to limit the classes of derelicts so that it isn't too cheesy)  But picking up Hiver weapons early on is really nice...
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Dazs

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #397 on: May 13, 2023, 10:51:29 AM »

Howdy getting ready to jump back in with .96 after @8 months not playing.  I noted on the main page that the mod recommends to not play with:

"Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds"

Why does it say this?  My experience has been:  "yes! do play Hiver Swarm with random core worlds"
Well hello there, I'll explain as best as I can. The mod does work with the RCW option but it has been my experience that by using random core worlds you disable a faction mod's custom systems. In essence it guts the Hivers custom closed loop economy that I made from them which allows them to grow. I did that because they lack any trading partners since they hate all factions and everyone hates them. Withought trade they do not have the resources to build fleets and their planets were chocked and losing population.
...in fact I only ever play modded with random core worlds, and Hiver Swarm had been a very interesting addition to the early Nex game.  Hivers do really well in systems where they have a starting advantage...but then the other factions begin to fight back.
Essentially they will be assigned random worlds in the RCW option but keep the same faction relationships. RCW assigns them a couple random quality planets and they try to trade with each other but the odds of covering all they need are rather low. In my experience trying them with RCW, they were able to have a couple small fleets in system but were not much of a threat to anyone. I received a couple comments/complaints from some players in the past who play RCW with them so I just figured it would best to put a recommendation on the forum OP.
Hanging out in their systems in the early game is a high risk/high reward activity.  (I play with Ruthless Sector to limit the classes of derelicts so that it isn't too cheesy)  But picking up Hiver weapons early on is really nice...
It's funny actually, I fielded a very similar question on discord last week so I planned to add a blurb to the forum OP as to why I do not recommend using RCW and how it changes the mod and makes them a small threat rather than the medium threat advertised. But then 0.96a hit, then Nex updated then I had a crash report for TTSC then I had to update TTSC and well currently I have been fielding some comments regarding one of my ships and touching it up.

SOOOO, I will be adding that blurb but I will add to it your observations as that is not an angle I had considered. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts!

eidolad

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #398 on: May 13, 2023, 05:25:12 PM »

That's really interesting about the "trade relationships"...what does a "good Hiver Swarm intra-faction trade relationship" look like to an observer?  Two large worlds with different industries/resources, in separate systems, with uncontested and/or short travel times?  Or those two worlds in the same systems that need stuff from each other?  The intel might be useful so that I can identify star groupings that I should definitely avoid in the early game.  Until at least I have a fast raiding force that might tag along with a friendly faction force heading towards it.

______

I kinda like the Hivers being an early game incursion...that slowly gets mopped up.  It sets a time limit on whether/if the player can get hold of their items and ships.  It also reminds me of a) I get ants in the house b) I apply several countermeasures and they go away.

In other words, I really like Hivers in my random core worlds games and will stubbornly add them because Smashing Big Bug Ships Cool.  Especially if I start a game in a system that has a Hiver world.  The system defenders for the world I'm orbiting begin their wars with the Hiver defenders...and that usually goes badly.  Gosh I just might to hang out and help, and oh look at that juicy salvage.  Hey what's that green weapon?  OK yikes there are no more human defenders...ok time to go.

Also want to note that a "growing" Hiver Swarm faction sounds...oh craps.  There have been times with Nexerelin (Nex) random maps that I've seen Hivers growing a bit but as you say it doesn't last long.  But I've also seen other mod factions have trouble competing in Nex.  Anyway I admit my reason of staying 100% with Random Core Worlds (RCW):  I'm avoiding the standard map until the official 1.0 release of StarSector so that I can play the campaign and map arrangement in it's completed glory.

Thank you for considering an update the OP about RCW...I think new players should just consider whether they would like some early/mid bug infestations (and rare cool weapons in shops/loot):

"A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:  a) Hivers will be a threat in the early-mid game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources and begin to lose worlds   b) so they are a unique source of tech/ships but eventually being everyone's enemy will push them into a minor role and/or they will be eliminated"


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xenoargh

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #399 on: May 13, 2023, 06:47:08 PM »

Just a quick thought: they might work with RCW if using something like EZ Faction to populate them as desired, after Nexerlin runs, rather than being entirely at the mercy of the generators. That might require a fire-once script; I've never looked at how RCW is implemented, but I presume it's much like early Exerelin's system, so it should be possible to run after that, since I presume it's largely just extending procgen.

IDK what state the public build of EZ Faction is in re: 0.96a+ (i.e., don't yell at me if it borks due to economic-engine changes- there's a reason why I haven't bothered updating most of my stuff, and won't until Alex says he's finally done with the core economy, lol). But it might provide a starting-place for this kind of thing.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #400 on: May 13, 2023, 07:00:40 PM »

That's really interesting about the "trade relationships"...what does a "good Hiver Swarm intra-faction trade relationship" look like to an observer?  Two large worlds with different industries/resources, in separate systems, with uncontested and/or short travel times?  Or those two worlds in the same systems that need stuff from each other?  The intel might be useful so that I can identify star groupings that I should definitely avoid in the early game.  Until at least I have a fast raiding force that might tag along with a friendly faction force heading towards it.
Well that is a bit of a complicated story but simply(?) no you would need more than two worlds. In a campaign game I have them set with multiple worlds in each system that each cover the resource needs of the industries in those systems. So they mine all their own raw materials (ore etc), produce their own intermediate supplies(heavy machinery, etc), manufacture their own final products (luxury goods, etc) and have the robust capital output to afford several invasion fleets and the occasional colony fleet (but that is part of a NEX gamble %). Now if you were an outside observer, you would see several trade fleets moving between their systems and landing on planets "trading goods" then moving on to another planet.
I kinda like the Hivers being an early game incursion...that slowly gets mopped up.  It sets a time limit on whether/if the player can get hold of their items and ships.  It also reminds me of a) I get ants in the house b) I apply several countermeasures and they go away.
Heh I like that, RCW makes them more of a household pest rather that the Tyranid rushing your base :)
In other words, I really like Hivers in my random core worlds games and will stubbornly add them because Smashing Big Bug Ships Cool.  Especially if I start a game in a system that has a Hiver world.  The system defenders for the world I'm orbiting begin their wars with the Hiver defenders...and that usually goes badly.  Gosh I just might to hang out and help, and oh look at that juicy salvage.  Hey what's that green weapon?  OK yikes there are no more human defenders...ok time to go.
Well I do have them tuned higher than vanilla factions so in a RCW game each faction pretty much starts off on equal terms economically. So in an early game Hivers will have a good advantage, where the begin to fail is once factions begin to grow and trade with each other. Hivers then have a hard time and they become the minority and with everyone hating them, they constantly get invaded and since they start with only 2 worlds it is not long before they are eliminated.
Also want to note that a "growing" Hiver Swarm faction sounds...oh craps.  There have been times with Nexerelin (Nex) random maps that I've seen Hivers growing a bit but as you say it doesn't last long.  But I've also seen other mod factions have trouble competing in Nex.  Anyway I admit my reason of staying 100% with Random Core Worlds (RCW):  I'm avoiding the standard map until the official 1.0 release of StarSector so that I can play the campaign and map arrangement in it's completed glory.
OH I get that. I like RCW as well and I really wish Derelict empire was worked on more or a new scenario is made. Beyond my capabilities but still I would give a big ole hug to anyone who takes that task on :)
Thank you for considering an update the OP about RCW...I think new players should just consider whether they would like some early/mid bug infestations (and rare cool weapons in shops/loot):
That is quite ok. I am a one man show with six mods to juggle and I rely on players such as yourself pointing things out and sharing their perspective. My mods are a group work and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
"A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:  a) Hivers will be a threat in the early-mid game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources and begin to lose worlds   b) so they are a unique source of tech/ships but eventually being everyone's enemy will push them into a minor role and/or they will be eliminated"
Nice, you have pretty much saved me the time to write my own. I have a couple edits I'd like to make but with your permission, I plan to plagiarize your work :)

Dazs

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #401 on: May 13, 2023, 07:12:43 PM »

Just a quick thought: they might work with RCW if using something like EZ Faction to populate them as desired, after Nexerlin runs, rather than being entirely at the mercy of the generators. That might require a fire-once script; I've never looked at how RCW is implemented, but I presume it's much like early Exerelin's system, so it should be possible to run after that, since I presume it's largely just extending procgen.
Hi there xenoargh, big fan :) Good points and I will look into it when time permits but I would have to consider a further modification if I had them appear fully formed in a RCW game it would give them an overwhelming advantage since every other faction starts with random placement and gutted economies. 
IDK what state the public build of EZ Faction is in re: 0.96a+ (i.e., don't yell at me if it borks due to economic-engine changes- there's a reason why I haven't bothered updating most of my stuff, and won't until Alex says he's finally done with the core economy, lol). But it might provide a starting-place for this kind of thing.
Yea I get that, I can keep my mods up to date since they are simple mods that require less maintenance than a more polished mod like Roider Union or HMI. Personally, I have not been able to start a long game since it seems every day a mod I like gets updated and I want them in my current game :)

Thanks for weighing in, I appreciate the help!

eidolad

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #402 on: May 13, 2023, 07:40:34 PM »

great info thanks.  funny enough, my very first .96a game playthrough features almost all of your mods (I don't think i need the hullmod mod since I have the two main "junk/trader" faction ones).  The demon MOAR would not go away until I threw you coffee


forgot to add:  in new game setup, when I set "enable Random Core Worlds":  II see in the "enable factions" menu that the Hiver faction is disabled by default...please consider to set to "enabled" by default, or inform players in the OP page about what the default setting is, and what to do about it
« Last Edit: May 13, 2023, 08:39:09 PM by eidolad »
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Dazs

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #403 on: May 14, 2023, 03:20:47 AM »

great info thanks.  funny enough, my very first .96a game playthrough features almost all of your mods (I don't think i need the hullmod mod since I have the two main "junk/trader" faction ones).  The demon MOAR would not go away until I threw you coffee
Glad to do it, I am sure there are other players who have similar questions it was good of you to take the time to ask. (Also gave me a kick in the pants to get it done:) ) But, but you need all six to complete your collection and truly experience the DMSU!
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forgot to add:  in new game setup, when I set "enable Random Core Worlds":  II see in the "enable factions" menu that the Hiver faction is disabled by default...please consider to set to "enabled" by default, or inform players in the OP page about what the default setting is, and what to do about it
Ah yea that was me sort of forcing the issue. I'll add that to the blurb once I field the messages on my other mods that came across this morning. I sort of feel bad about that now, I do my best to make my mods, well, modular with all sorts of of ways to tailor them to an individual's taste and here I go holding up a big ole stop sign on RCW. Bad Dazs Bad!

NasaBrindle

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Re: [0.96a] Hiver Swarm - V1.08b - 05/12/23
« Reply #404 on: May 14, 2023, 04:28:42 AM »

Hello and good mod! Your ships are beautiful and I like the design, and I love the idea of a perma-hostile faction. I did a game where tangling with the Hivers cost me a fleet or two! :-)

I will note, however, that the Hivers' stated goal of hyper-hostility falls apart fairly often- Being hostile to everyone, they tend to post bounties, which then means my war with the Hegemon rapidly gets me into their good graces, at which point they're a normal faction.

Similarly, I kept finding bio-weapons all over the place well before I met the hivers, which hurt their mystique a little bit. Is there a way to make it so their weapons only drop from direct confrontations?
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