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[Dazs]

v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

[HopeFall]

Ah.
***. I came to check if anyone was having some problems with the Hivers, since all three of their far reaching planets pinged as Deteriorating at the same time. Seems like I've got to start a new campaign all over again.

[Dazs]

Ah.
***. I came to check if anyone was having some problems with the Hivers, since all three of their far reaching planets pinged as Deteriorating at the same time. Seems like I've got to start a new campaign all over again.

Good morning again! I am glad I caught it before too much time had passed sorry about that. I do try to release save game compatible updates but when I break something so catastrophically well it sort of needed to be. I am glad to hear you are willing to start a new game and not just uninstall the mod though

[mllhild]

v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

Nice, I just wanted to start a new game this weekend so lets see how the changed Hivers are now doing in a quite modded campaign.

[Dazs]

v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

Nice, I just wanted to start a new game this weekend so lets see how the changed Hivers are now doing in a quite modded campaign.

Nice! I am glad it worked out for someone at least

[Volsungare]

v1.07 released today -Save game compatible but if you started a new game with 1.06 then a new 1.07 game is required if you want them to invade, sorry everyone for the hassle.

Essentially by taking them off the market in 1.06 it gutted their economy and their ability to afford and field large invasion fleets, I am so sorry for not testing for this. I spent so many hours trying to figure out how to fulfill the request to get them off Stelnet and was so happy when I finally did that it never occurred to me that this would be a side effect. There are other player requested changes that can be seen in the changelog located in the RAR and on the forum OP but that is the major one.

I may just let them die off then...I just scored some rare blueprints in exploration that I haven't seen in the past three games :S Alternatively, I now know where I am going to colonize 

[HopeFall]

If you get Unofficial New Game Plus, and edit it's settings, you can make a save point at any time. While this won't actually carry over ships/weapons, blueprint inheritance is one of its options.

[Dazs]

I may just let them die off then...I just scored some rare blueprints in exploration that I haven't seen in the past three games :S Alternatively, I now know where I am going to colonize 

Using v1.06 gives you three poorly defended very rich systems to set up a base of operations if you look at it that way. Always a silver lining.

[SchDerGrosse]

I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.

[Dazs]

I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.

Good morning, thank you for taking the time to reach out. I am aware of the issue and have spent quite some time trying to not have them show on the commodity tab. I thought I had it in the previous patch but the "fix" gutted their internal economy because not only could the player see the commodities, the Hivers couldn't either. I have reached out to a couple scripters but I still have not found a way to do it w/out pulling their teeth.

I am sorry to hear that this is a game breaking issue for you but I totally get it and apologize. I have not given up on the idea and it is at the top of my Hiver to-do list but I cannot at this time give any ETA when/if I can have that issue addressed.

[SchDerGrosse]

I cannot really comment on the quality of the mod itself as I have just installed it.

One thing that came accross very annoying though. When pressing F1 on the cargo window, hiver colonies occupy at least half the screen as either having excess or demand regarding a certain goods. Makes trading very annoying. I am halfway tempted to just remove the mod.. : /

It would be a shame, as it looked quite promising.

Good morning, thank you for taking the time to reach out. I am aware of the issue and have spent quite some time trying to not have them show on the commodity tab. I thought I had it in the previous patch but the "fix" gutted their internal economy because not only could the player see the commodities, the Hivers couldn't either. I have reached out to a couple scripters but I still have not found a way to do it w/out pulling their teeth.

I am sorry to hear that this is a game breaking issue for you but I totally get it and apologize. I have not given up on the idea and it is at the top of my Hiver to-do list but I cannot at this time give any ETA when/if I can have that issue addressed.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I totally get why you had to include them in the global economy.

With regards to my problem, i wouldnt call it "game breaking" but it sure is annoying. Anyways, I'll keep an eye out on this mod as the concept is very cool.

[mllhild]

So test results until:
I let the Hivers happily grow until cycle 214.
Their they conquered 5 small planets sprayed over the core, but all size 4 or 5 worlds. --> seems ok in size for a mid game vs vanilla
Their fleets are ok to fight with regular capitalships and a nice amount of PD.

Annoyances:
- supertanker and superfreighter fleets cant be autoresolved which means boring fight vs cargoships and a lot of CR lost for nothing. Please make those cargoships have less FP or whatever the game uses for calculating if autoresolve is possible. (It wasnt that my fleet was small, it was almost max size of pure capital ships)
- why do their fleets have so many logistics vessels  (tanker/freighter)
- they dont feel like a meaneace because they are attacking weak targets in several systems instead of hitting the core with concentrated invasions. In a sense they feel more like cockroaches that pop up again and again in different corners
- is there no way to make them stronger besides them having cheap production? Would a credit producing building not do the same? (yes Im refering to the market price indicator being swamped with their products)

I havent invaded their home system yet,once I have time to do it will let you know how they did.

[Dazs]

So test results until:
I let the Hivers happily grow until cycle 214.
Their they conquered 5 small planets sprayed over the core, but all size 4 or 5 worlds. --> seems ok in size for a mid game vs vanilla
Their fleets are ok to fight with regular capitalships and a nice amount of PD.

Good morning! Sounds like they are doing their job, mid game vs vanilla+ is their power level. I had not intended them to be the end game big bad. I was aiming for an enemy to fight when you are first established and pirates are no longer really a threat but Ordo fleets sill make you use your burn drives.

Annoyances:
- supertanker and superfreighter fleets cant be autoresolved which means boring fight vs cargoships and a lot of CR lost for nothing. Please make those cargoships have less FP or whatever the game uses for calculating if autoresolve is possible. (It wasnt that my fleet was small, it was almost max size of pure capital ships)

I have them set to not retreat and that applies to all their ships including the logistics. I wouldn't say fighting them is for noting, the larger ones have numerous pd weapons that sell for a pretty penny and you get XP for fighting them.

- why do their fleets have so many logistics vessels  (tanker/freighter)

The reason they have logistics ships is because their home system is on the edge of the map and they need a ton of supplies and fuel to reach the core with their large invasion fleets. I gave them a capital freighter and tanker because before that their invasion fleets were full of the smaller ones that took space that would be better suited for combat ships.

- they dont feel like a meaneace because they are attacking weak targets in several systems instead of hitting the core with concentrated invasions. In a sense they feel more like cockroaches that pop up again and again in different corners

Well as I stated earlier they are not meant to be an end game threat. If, as you stated earlier, you are using a fleet full of capitals I would say you are more established than the Hivers are intended to be a threat for. Plus if you ignore them for that long then yes they will scatter shot and start off invading the weaker planets in order to build up and if you ignored them even longer they would eventually take over a vanilla sector.

It is also a matter of how many faction mods you have installed, the more you have the harder it is for them. For example, when players are having a hard time with them I have recommended that they install Peplat's the Xhan Empire. Firstly because it is an awesome very well made mod but also because they are based directly in the route the Hivers take to invade the core. It was not my intention to have them be the defenders of the core but they just love beating down those Hiver invasion fleets.

- is there no way to make them stronger besides them having cheap production? Would a credit producing building not do the same? (yes Im refering to the market price indicator being swamped with their products)

Their internal economy is not really about credits but in order to satisfy their commodity demands. They are in a sort of unique position in that no one will trade with them so if they need fuel, supplies or anything their planets demand they have to produce it themselves. It took me quite some time to have each system interconnected in a self made economy that could grow and afford so many invasion/defense fleets.

I havent invaded their home system yet,once I have time to do it will let you know how they did.

Well with as established as you seem to be then it should not be that hard a challenge. I am working on beefing up their systems but I got sidetracked with some hotfixes. I appreciate the feedback and look forward to hearing your battle report once you do go after them in their current state. Any observations or details you would be willing to share would be helpful in making them a tougher nut to crack.

I think if you ever start a new game and go after them before you have a fully established colony system that can allow you to afford a fleet of capital ships then you would enjoy them more. Personally I usually go after them once I have a fleet that has the correct mix. Then I piggyback on a friendly faction invasion fleet targeting a Hiver world and use them as tanks while I pick off the smaller threats. They are meant to be a combat stepping stone between pirates and Ordo for players who are more into pew pew than trading or smuggling as a way to build up.

[mllhild]

Regarding the Tanker and Freigters again, would changing their class into Combat Freoghter and Combat Tanker make the AI use them as reinforcements?
If that would work and as you kill their combat ships the AI starts to trow their logistics ships at you in the same battle, this would
1. fit their no retreat doctrine,
2. make them more of a endless swarm feeling enemy

Do I have to change anything other than the
ship_data.csv in data/hulls
default_ship_roles.json in data\world\factions
to test this?

To explain better why I want this:

Typical invasion fleet having X amount of fleets means X amount of battles with a CR cost per battle of X*15%CR on average depending on shiptype and DP costs on both sides.

A normal ship has 70% CR.
Debuffs start at 50% CR to damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
At less than 40% CR a ship will have reduced missile magazines (dropping to empty at 10% CR) and will experience temporary, random malfunctions in combat that take weapons, engines or the shields offline
At less than 20% CR a ship will suffer critical malfunctions upon deployment and in combat, which will disable a weapon or engine for the duration of the battle and cause hull damage

CR gets reduced at the end of the battle, so independent of your combat performance:
Fight 1: 70% CR -> all ok
Fight 2: 55% CR -> all ok
Fight 3: 40% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
Fight 4: 25% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability, reduced missile magazines, temporary, random malfunctions
Fight 5: 10% CR -> ships are useless

If you look at invasion fleets from most factions, there usually are around 2-3 of them. Which means that the player fleet can fight them in peak condition or close to it.

Now with Hivers this looks a bit different since you have to fight always a second battle against the supply ships. -> So each fleet creates 2 battles. -> each fleet costs 30% CR to fight

This means that that no matter how well you do in battle, you have to sit on top of a friendly planet to fight more than one hiver fleet.
The other option is what Im doing and having a full capital fleet where I can have essentially two battle fleets and hence deal with 2 or 3 fleets without getting ground down purely on basis of CR.
Still with Hiver inasion fleets often having 4 to 5 fleets this means I still have to go back to a station to repair.

It just makes the fighting very restrictive and not fun since it just turns into lets sit on the planet and have a cargoships full of supplies.

[Dazs]

Regarding the Tanker and Freigters again, would changing their class into Combat Freoghter and Combat Tanker make the AI use them as reinforcements?
If that would work and as you kill their combat ships the AI starts to trow their logistics ships at you in the same battle, this would
1. fit their no retreat doctrine,
2. make them more of a endless swarm feeling enemy

Do I have to change anything other than the
ship_data.csv in data/hulls
default_ship_roles.json in data\world\factions
to test this?

To explain better why I want this:

Typical invasion fleet having X amount of fleets means X amount of battles with a CR cost per battle of X*15%CR on average depending on shiptype and DP costs on both sides.

A normal ship has 70% CR.
Debuffs start at 50% CR to damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
At less than 40% CR a ship will have reduced missile magazines (dropping to empty at 10% CR) and will experience temporary, random malfunctions in combat that take weapons, engines or the shields offline
At less than 20% CR a ship will suffer critical malfunctions upon deployment and in combat, which will disable a weapon or engine for the duration of the battle and cause hull damage

CR gets reduced at the end of the battle, so independent of your combat performance:
Fight 1: 70% CR -> all ok
Fight 2: 55% CR -> all ok
Fight 3: 40% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability
Fight 4: 25% CR -> damage taken increased, damage dealt decreased,slower fighters respawn, reduced maneuverability, reduced missile magazines, temporary, random malfunctions
Fight 5: 10% CR -> ships are useless

If you look at invasion fleets from most factions, there usually are around 2-3 of them. Which means that the player fleet can fight them in peak condition or close to it.

Now with Hivers this looks a bit different since you have to fight always a second battle against the supply ships. -> So each fleet creates 2 battles. -> each fleet costs 30% CR to fight

This means that that no matter how well you do in battle, you have to sit on top of a friendly planet to fight more than one hiver fleet.
The other option is what Im doing and having a full capital fleet where I can have essentially two battle fleets and hence deal with 2 or 3 fleets without getting ground down purely on basis of CR.
Still with Hiver inasion fleets often having 4 to 5 fleets this means I still have to go back to a station to repair.

It just makes the fighting very restrictive and not fun since it just turns into lets sit on the planet and have a cargoships full of supplies.

Oh my you really put some thought into this, thank you so much for clarifying your reasoning. If I were to make them combat freighters/tankers then the game would deploy them in lieu of actual combat ships in the initial wave and since they have a high DP and are rated as capitals I believe it would severely dampen their combat deployments since they are only armed with PD weapons. I would also have to change the settings of fleet usage of freighter use vs combat freighter and the game would weigh them equally with the other smaller combat freighters/tankers when deploying a fleet.

I am sympathetic to your point and agree with you, I am just unsure how I would go about keeping their no surrender/no retreat policy. If you go about your proposed testing I would be interested in what changes you made. I am currently working on a CFT update that I have already put off due to the recent Hiver mod fiasco I had to hotfix so I would like to finish that. I will however put a pin in my plans to update my other mods and put Hiver on the next to-do with your critique in mind and give it more thought. I appreciate your help with the mod and look forward to your results.