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[Dazs]

The only thing that comes to mind is that you have referenced playing as your own faction and I am little confused because I do not see a custom mod listed on your enabled mods. Which faction are you refereing to as your own?

"Own faction" start option, where you start with your own world.

Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?

[OBRISON]

Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?

I am using random core worlds mode.

[Dazs]

Ah OK that clears it up but that should not have any effect on Hivers or TTSC. My last outlier possibility question is are you using random core worlds mode?

I am using random core worlds mode.

Eureka! That is the issue, phew I was going nuts trying to figure this out. I should have asked that first thing, my bad. This explains both issues because when you start the game in RCW Nexerelin randomly assigns the factions in the sector. What that means is w/e custom systems that a mod adds is ignored and each faction is given even standing in the game. Now normally that is a viable gameplay but as I stated earlier, HIVER has three custom systems that are tailored specifically to make them a threat. In RCW mode they are given one planet with limited resources and even though NEX ignores the custom systems it does use the faction file that sets their relationship status with the other factions. Since they are hard coded to hate and be hated by everyone they have no trading partners and their economy is gutted. With no economic force to fuel their aggression the best they can form is maybe two small fleets with destroyers and that is pitiful compared to them in a standard game. So yes in that scenario they will be the first target of every faction to eliminate.

This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:

Spoiler

When you start a new game and get to the screen to enable random core worlds, go to option 4)faction settings then 1)Enable/disable factions. A screen will appear on the right and depending on how may faction mods you have installed you may have to scroll down but look for HIVER. It will be disabled by default, just press the Enabled button and go back. The game will remember this setting for this game only and you will need to do this each time you start a new RCW game.

You can enable them for RCW permanently but be aware this will also make them a starting faction so do not do this in a normal Corvus sector game.
From the mods tab in you Starsector folder go to Hiver Swarm\data\config\exerelinfactionConfig\HIVER.json and open it with your editor. Navigate to line 3 "startingFaction":false and set it to true, and save.

A note about adding Hiver Swarm to your Nexerelin game that has Random Core Worlds enabled:
I do not recommend enabling them in RCW because Hivers may be a threat in the early game but due to a lack of trading partners, random planet/placement negatively affecting the Hiver economy, and everyone being at war with them basically permanently, the Hiver faction will become starved of resources, begin to lose worlds and not be much of a threat to anyone. On the positive side, it makes them a source of easy to obtain valuable salvage and some early game XP.

[close]

My guess is that you downloaded the mod from discord and never got to see that warning. If that is the case please let me know but either way I will add that to the discord link somehow.

As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.

[OBRISON]

This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:

Then I should apologize, I didnt see it. I dont play Starsector for long periods, I visit forums now and then only when I am playing.

As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.

I also assumed this was the reason why TTSC gained so much power.

For what its worth I like the weapons in this mod. They give me good edge over TTSC.

[Dazs]

This is why I have it bolded on the forum OP "Note: see the optional files if you want to have them appear in Nexerelin's Random Core Worlds option(disabled by default)"
And the optional file states the following:

Then I should apologize, I didnt see it. I dont play Starsector for long periods, I visit forums now and then only when I am playing.

No need, I am just happy we figured it out

As for TTSC, as I said earlier, they are hard coded to be allied with Tri-Tac and have better than average ships. In RCW the same thing is applied that their custom stations are ignored and they are given a planet as a homebase. Essentially that gives them and Tri-Tac a huge advantage in RCW because they will always have each other as trading partners.

I also assumed this was the reason why TTSC gained so much power.

Yep they become a powerhouse compared to other factions in RCW. Maybe I should add that as a caution on the TTSC site when I update that mod next.

For what its worth I like the weapons in this mod. They give me good edge over TTSC.

I find that interesting. Though Hiver weapons are more powerful as a general rule, they are almost all pulse energy weapons with a shorter range than TTSC's beams. With the TTSC ship specific hull mod their ships should outrange ships equipped with Hiver weapons and be able to kite them. Either way, I am glad that you are enjoying both mods. TTSC should be next in line for my update queue so I'll keep your comments in mind when I do so.

[ProdigyToby]

  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.

Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.

[Dazs]

Hi ProdigyToby, good to hear back from you. I appreciate your follow up and I have some thoughts rolling around in me mind regarding the mod so though I will be responding to your comments, I will most likely also be inserting some TLDR.

  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.

After years of playing Starsector both with and w/out mods I wanted a new challenge to spice the game up a bit. I designed this mod because as time went on, I tried every mod available some I kept and some I disabled and I currently play a very heavily modded game that has multiple factions enabled. So the release product of Hiver Swarm was with that in mind and I did a poor job explaining that it is intended to be a goal mod in itself and not something you just leave run in the background and eventually get to.

Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.

I appreciate your outlook and that is what I initially intended but I have been receiving several comments here and on discord that players who prefer a less modded game are struggling with the default setup. What really brought it home to me was watching Butter Baronet's latest video, Pushing back the swarm #11, where he essentially states he will no longer be continuing the series as he just cannot get ahead no matter what he does in his lightly modded game. That really brought it home to me since I really enjoyed his Spaceboi vs Hiver video series and I felt I did a disservice to the community that wants a challenge but one that does not require such a heavily modded game.

So, In the next update I will be adding an optional difficulty file to the Zip that will enable a more vanilla+ experience w/out, hopefully, needing multiple mods to make it enjoyable. This is a just a goal at this point and will need some extensive testing on my part and most likely I will get it wrong. My first draft thought is they will still have the three systems, same "I hate you" outlook, the same weapons, wings and ships but they will be far less aggressive with fewer invasion fleets. Or I could do a nerf to their stats to make them much weaker. Maybe a little from column A and a little from column B, idk at this stage.

Sorry to sort of hijack my response with the random thoughts bouncing about my head. Honestly, I am not sure what the answer is here w/out fundamentally changing the core of what this mod is so any ideas from the player base on this would be appreciated. 

[ProdigyToby]

Hi ProdigyToby, good to hear back from you. I appreciate your follow up and I have some thoughts rolling around in me mind regarding the mod so though I will be responding to your comments, I will most likely also be inserting some TLDR.

  Yeah thats one reason I dont like random core worlds.  The faction strength the mod author intends gets throw up into RNG.  The hivers are so strong initially because they have 3 systems?  At the start with some good planets in there.  I also think that the more factions active in your nex playthrough, the more likely the Hivers will get slowed down.  This is because every faction ends up hating the Hivers and thus taking military actions against them.  So if you have like 10 modded factions, and they all hate the Hivers, obviously the Hivers wont be as scary as a playthrough with fewer modded factions.  At least thats what I think happens im my experience.

After years of playing Starsector both with and w/out mods I wanted a new challenge to spice the game up a bit. I designed this mod because as time went on, I tried every mod available some I kept and some I disabled and I currently play a very heavily modded game that has multiple factions enabled. So the release product of Hiver Swarm was with that in mind and I did a poor job explaining that it is intended to be a goal mod in itself and not something you just leave run in the background and eventually get to.

Hivers WILL dominate the system if the player does not intervene. This mod is not a oh I'll install it and eventually get around to it I made it because I felt the journey to the endgame was not much of an experience and I wanted a bigger threat to have to handle before eating the Doritos. They are designed to grow and can be handled by the player mid-game and then the player can move on to the end game. But if you ignore them then the snowball just gets bigger and harder to handle.

  Yeah I think thats fine and needed as a mod.  No other mod quite does what the Hiver mod does this well and this thematically.  Now when I enable the Hivers, I'm aware that it's going to be a "Hiver" playthrough, which is good.  They will get out of control if you don't intervene, and they get slowed down quite a bit or even defeated if the player puts enough effort in. It's a good balance.

I appreciate your outlook and that is what I initially intended but I have been receiving several comments here and on discord that players who prefer a less modded game are struggling with the default setup. What really brought it home to me was watching Butter Baronet's latest video, Pushing back the swarm #11, where he essentially states he will no longer be continuing the series as he just cannot get ahead no matter what he does in his lightly modded game. That really brought it home to me since I really enjoyed his Spaceboi vs Hiver video series and I felt I did a disservice to the community that wants a challenge but one that does not require such a heavily modded game.

So, In the next update I will be adding an optional difficulty file to the Zip that will enable a more vanilla+ experience w/out, hopefully, needing multiple mods to make it enjoyable. This is a just a goal at this point and will need some extensive testing on my part and most likely I will get it wrong. My first draft thought is they will still have the three systems, same "I hate you" outlook, the same weapons, wings and ships but they will be far less aggressive with fewer invasion fleets. Or I could do a nerf to their stats to make them much weaker. Maybe a little from column A and a little from column B, idk at this stage.

Sorry to sort of hijack my response with the random thoughts bouncing about my head. Honestly, I am not sure what the answer is here w/out fundamentally changing the core of what this mod is so any ideas from the player base on this would be appreciated.

  I actually know exactly the playthrough you're talking about, but with all respect to Butter Baronet, I don't think the main issue is with the mod specifically.  If you pay close attention to the fleets he created, you can see at no point did he ever have a truly capable capital ship, even a vanilla one like the Paragon.  He was also fighting Hiver fleets which were way over the capabilities of the fleets he was using.  I think when you engage the Hivers, you need to treat them like the endgame threat they are.   You need capital ships or even ships that you have heavily invested alot into to contest the Hivers.  They are beatable with vanilla factions, I have done it myself.  I had to farm money and do a little extra things to build the ships I needed, but it is possible.  I think the issue was he kept atempting to engage them after losing his entire fleet, then quickly assembling another fleet which wasn't very capable and doing it again.  You really need to assemble a good fleet like I said, but he repeated this about 3 times or so I believe, which at no point was he going to win with those compositions.  I just think he misunderstood what he needed to have to actually contest them.  He also never realized how valuable their drops are.  I believe he defeated one or two small Hiver fleets, but they didnt drop much.  Once you have one fleet which can contest Hiver fleets and win, you yourself can snowball by selling thier drops to factions for large amounts of credits.

  That being said, its not my decision to decide what gets put in the mod or not, and if you want to put a "casual" option thats completely up to you, but understand that some of us do, in fact, know how to deal with the Hivers.  My only issue was trying to get OTHER factions to deal with them.  I might just be jaded though, because a couple of years ago, we had an even more powerful enemy type mod called "The Knights Templar" where I actually learned how to meta game enough to deal with that faction mod.  They didnt proliferate as well as the Hivers, but they were SO overpowered in their ships and weapons.  So I understand my point of view might not be the best one to make decisions like that with, haha.

[Dazs]

Thank you for the reply, I trimmed down the TLDR so I can keep it concise.

  I actually know exactly the playthrough you're talking about, but with all respect to Butter Baronet, I don't think the main issue is with the mod specifically.  If you pay close attention to the fleets he created, you can see at no point did he ever have a truly capable capital ship, even a vanilla one like the Paragon.  He was also fighting Hiver fleets which were way over the capabilities of the fleets he was using.  I think when you engage the Hivers, you need to treat them like the endgame threat they are.   You need capital ships or even ships that you have heavily invested alot into to contest the Hivers.

Yea I noticed a couple players giving him some good advice throughout the series and he seemed to change things up and got better at fighting them but I agree that the gameplay overall was a bit hasty. I think that the looming threat was part of what sped up his gameplay but I am not sure.

They are beatable with vanilla factions, I have done it myself.  I had to farm money and do a little extra things to build the ships I needed, but it is possible.  I think the issue was he kept atempting to engage them after losing his entire fleet, then quickly assembling another fleet which wasn't very capable and doing it again.  You really need to assemble a good fleet like I said, but he repeated this about 3 times or so I believe, which at no point was he going to win with those compositions.  I just think he misunderstood what he needed to have to actually contest them.  He also never realized how valuable their drops are.  I believe he defeated one or two small Hiver fleets, but they didnt drop much.  Once you have one fleet which can contest Hiver fleets and win, you yourself can snowball by selling thier drops to factions for large amounts of credits.

I do have the option of not have their ships recoverable or weapons drop for those that do not want alien tech so I assumed he was keeping a RP style like that. However, the reason I have the default setting drop their gear and salvage their ships is that I feel the player needs that to recoup their losses and rebuild. I do see several comments on discord from players talking about/bragging? how many credits they make farming them and that is a valid way to make credits but the original intent was as a means to recoup losses after learning how to fight them but loosing your fleet.

  That being said, its not my decision to decide what gets put in the mod or not, and if you want to put a "casual" option thats completely up to you, but understand that some of us do, in fact, know how to deal with the Hivers.  My only issue was trying to get OTHER factions to deal with them. 

Oh no worries the default option will not change. I just have a firm belief that my goal as a mod maker is to offer options. In this mod alone I have several optional instructions and files up to an entire set of replacement ships and weapons, that is how committed I am to the concept

I might just be jaded though, because a couple of years ago, we had an even more powerful enemy type mod called "The Knights Templar" where I actually learned how to meta game enough to deal with that faction mod.  They didnt proliferate as well as the Hivers, but they were SO overpowered in their ships and weapons.  So I understand my point of view might not be the best one to make decisions like that with, haha.

I have been playing this game from when it was called Starfarer. In the Metelson Industries reboot that Knight Chase is caretaking I mention that I was so happy to see it back because I used to play as them like 10 years ago. I miss so many depreciated mods that have been left to time. Knights Templar is certainly one of them but there were some great ones like Tiandong Heavy Industries, COPS, Tore Up Plenty, Galaxy Tigers and Junk Pirates to name a few that I would like to see make a comeback as well. Heck come to think of it I think my first forum post was asking MesoTroniK to add a tanker to Tiandong because I wanted to play as only them lol.

Anyway as I said, I wanted to keep this concise (well as much as my blabberfingers can do). I mainly just wanted to say I appreciate the support thank you.

[ThatsMyFootThanks]

I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.

Just my 2 cents.

I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.

[Dazs]

I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.

I am leaning toward the "column A" option I mentioned earlier and it seems you are of the same opinion. I have been doing some "research" on discord reading up on what players are saying there. By separating the wheat from the chaff I did see some interesting ideas like having them hibernate and only appear after several cycles. Thing is, I am pretty much a noob when it comes to Java so I am going to try and implement some of the ideas I saw like that one but I suspect I will be just doing close to what you state in the end.

Just my 2 cents.

OoOoo a tip,  thank you!

I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.

Personally I do not use the cookie cutter builds I see online. I also enjoy experimenting and seeing what I can build. A core philosophy behind my playable faction mods is giving options to players that are not available in the vanilla game. When I play, it is always as an independent and generally as a scavenger that only uses what I salvage or a miner that only earns credits from mining/refining. I rarely play as a faction commissioned captain, even with the factions I created. Though, TBH, I do follow their fleets sometimes in hopes there may be some floating ships from their factions I can snag after a battle

I salute your experimentation and thank you for weighing in on the correspondence.

[ThatsMyFootThanks]

I think that the Hivers expand so quickly compared to other factions that even weakening them wouldn't do it. I think to balance them for a more vanilla friendly experience (cause not everybody has the same skill at the game), you need to make them less aggressive, less prone to quick expansion. You probably don't even need to touch their ships. If there would be a setting to make them expand at a rate that the player would be comfortable with, I think that would work better. Cause then the challenge of beating them would still be there, but you could take your time in doing so without being hurried by their every present looming threat.

I am leaning toward the "column A" option I mentioned earlier and it seems you are of the same opinion. I have been doing some "research" on discord reading up on what players are saying there. By separating the wheat from the chaff I did see some interesting ideas like having them hibernate and only appear after several cycles. Thing is, I am pretty much a noob when it comes to Java so I am going to try and implement some of the ideas I saw like that one but I suspect I will be just doing close to what you state in the end.

Just my 2 cents.

OoOoo a tip,  thank you!

I have beat them with an odd combination of modded factions before: Carriers from the UAF, bulky cruisers from the Roider's Union, Some fast annoying ships from vanilla and DA and even a couple Mobile Armor suits from AA. I'm not very good at the game, and I'm not looking for a challenge either. I just enjoy building cool looking ships and seeing what works and what doesn't.

Personally I do not use the cookie cutter builds I see online. I also enjoy experimenting and seeing what I can build. A core philosophy behind my playable faction mods is giving options to players that are not available in the vanilla game. When I play, it is always as an independent and generally as a scavenger that only uses what I salvage or a miner that only earns credits from mining/refining. I rarely play as a faction commissioned captain, even with the factions I created. Though, TBH, I do follow their fleets sometimes in hopes there may be some floating ships from their factions I can snag after a battle

I salute your experimentation and thank you for weighing in on the correspondence.

Hey, no problem! If it helps you in any way, then that's great

[bibigun23]

Just respectfully spamming one more hello to my fav modder Dazs. I'll do so next month too propably :3

[Dazs]

Hey, no problem! If it helps you in any way, then that's great

Indeed it does.

Just respectfully spamming one more hello to my fav modder Dazs. I'll do so next month too propably :3

Lol thank you, free publicity is always a fun treat!

I plan to put aside some time this weekend to do a deep dive on Hiver comments here and on discord and combine what I find there with what is already commented upon here since the last update. So get your comments in by then and I'll consider them as well.

[Shogouki]

Hey Dazs, I saw your request to Histidine on the Nexerelin thread and wanted to ask if it would be just as easy to make the delay in Hiver activity variable from 1 to X number of years so that players who like to take their time exploring and doing the Galatia missions don't feel rushed to need to be in a position to save the sector so quickly?  No worries if not, I just wanted to see about the possibility.