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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 251379 times)

Fenrir

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #945 on: December 28, 2021, 01:30:16 AM »

With the player having the Combat Endurance elite skill, in some battles the hull repair seems to get stuck and stops working for the rest of the battle.
It works fine the next battle though.

Hull repair isn't infinite - it'll stop repairing once it's recovered 2000 points or 50% of max hull (whichever is greater) during each battle. It's effectively akin to a more active version of the hull boost from Reinforced Bulkheads.
And hull repair only take effects when your hull points are below half and stop at half, to add to the note.
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wsdude

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #946 on: December 28, 2021, 07:51:57 AM »

The lvl cap needs to either be raised to 20 or there needs to be a fusion of the fuel/supplies skill into 1.They are just too good to pass up and honestly make the game more hassle free/way less tedious.
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Fenrir

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #947 on: December 28, 2021, 08:52:23 AM »

The lvl cap needs to either be raised to 20 or there needs to be a fusion of the fuel/supplies skill into 1.They are just too good to pass up and honestly make the game more hassle free/way less tedious.

TBH I believe the supply skill needs a nerf, it doubles almost any non-capital mass fleets' operational time between docking ports
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #948 on: December 28, 2021, 09:16:34 AM »

The lvl cap needs to either be raised to 20 or there needs to be a fusion of the fuel/supplies skill into 1.They are just too good to pass up and honestly make the game more hassle free/way less tedious.

I actually agree that the level cap could prolly go up a little in the current configuration (for which of course any player can mod it in themselves, but I'm saying vanilla should prolly be 16 as max level).  But I doubt max level will go to 20 until that totally-unpredicted colony skill tree gets added to game (prolly with the mythical politics update)...
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Vanshilar

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #949 on: December 28, 2021, 09:21:52 AM »

I actually agree that the level cap could prolly go up a little in the current configuration (for which of course any player can mod it in themselves, but I'm saying vanilla should prolly be 16 as max level).

Nah level 15 was on purpose, basically so you can get up to 3 top-tier skills in 3 different trees, or 2 top-tier skills in one tree and 1 in another tree, but that there would be no way to get 4 top-tier skills. Limited to max of 3 in the base vanilla game.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 09:32:39 AM by Vanshilar »
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TerranEmpire

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #950 on: December 28, 2021, 09:28:39 AM »

Level 16 or 18 is a good idea
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #951 on: December 28, 2021, 09:57:16 AM »

Nah level 15 was on purpose, basically so you can get up to 3 top-tier skills in 3 different trees, or 2 top-tier skills in one tree and 1 in another tree, but that there would be no way to get 4 top-tier skills. Limited to max of 3 in the base vanilla game.

I know it was on purpose.  This whole game is on purpose.  16 would have made more sense during wrap around mechanic that was universally excoriated (so can do three trees once and get 1 lowest skill in fourth tree) and is more abusable this time, but at least a few peeps have pointed out that combat tree max skills kinda weak sauce.  But perhaps I'm biased, I barely use combat skill tree unless I need to respec for something storyline related.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #952 on: December 28, 2021, 10:01:19 AM »

The lvl cap needs to either be raised to 20 or there needs to be a fusion of the fuel/supplies skill into 1.They are just too good to pass up and honestly make the game more hassle free/way less tedious.

There are players who do pass them up on some runs.  For me, the end game can be reached and beaten on an Industry 5 + 10 other skills build.  The level cap is mostly an arbitrary limit to make different campaign runs feel different.  If you run the same campaign with essentially the same skills every time, I find them less interesting to replay.  Typically, the argument to raise the level cap would be that the end game is too hard on a 15 skill point budget.  It doesn't help you early or mid-game, but comes into play only for the hardest challenges at the end.

I think 16-19 is a bad number of skill points since it makes getting 4 level 5's in two trees possible (8+8+extra), but not 4 level 5's in 4 different trees (which requires a full 20).  Right now, doing 3 different trees seems reasonable.  16-19 suddenly means taking top skills from only two trees is far more attractive, in some sense reducing diversity due to efficiency of getting four tier 5 skills instead of only 3.

Are people finding end game threats such as <Redacted> and <Super Redacted> too hard to deal with such that 1-5 more skills would be the deciding factor in success?  That would be a stronger argument, at least to me.

As for merging, if the skills already are too good, then merging them to make them better makes them would seem to make that skill even more mandatory.  Which seems counter to what an interesting and diverse skill tree should provide.  If the game is too tedious (which is not clear to me that it is, but certainly different players will have different tolerances and likes in their campaign layer), then I'd suggest advocating that the tedium be addressed at the root cause, as opposed to making mandatory quality of life skills.

On the other hand, arguing the skills are too weak might justify their merger.  As it is, you can get roughly the same fleet performance by adding an additional two destroyer tankers and a cargo cruiser to your fleet line up.  So in the end, it saves you credits, both in initial outlay and over time, but it doesn't strike me as game breaking savings.

TBH I believe the supply skill needs a nerf, it doubles almost any non-capital mass fleets' operational time between docking ports

That does assume you're not engaging in combat, recovering ships, or getting hit by hyperspace storms.  CR restoration from 0% is unaffected by Makeshift Equipment for example, and can be multiple months equivalent.  At the end of the day, for a 100 DP fleet, you're talking about a difference of 50 supplies per month between having the skill or not.  So lets say my typical exploration fleet is 100 DP, and I expect to stay out for a full cycle.  My monthly costs (ignoring all CR restoration) will add up to either 1200 (no skill) or 600 supplies (with skill).  The difference is a little more than a single destroyer's cargo capacity.  A single Buffalo can provide 400*1.3=520 cargo capacity at an additional cost of 3 supplies per month.  Adding a single Colossus potentially adds 1170 cargo capacity.  So in terms of operational time between docking ports, a Colossus might be considered about twice as good as the skill, assuming you typically stay out for a full cycle between stopping at ports.

What it does do is save you probably 5,000 credits plus whatever fuel, crew, and supplies costs for the additional logistic ship.  Call it 10,000 difference a month, plus the initial ship cost of 25,000-60,000 depending on which ship and how you buy it, or potentially 0 if you scavenge it.  It's nice, but nothing that strikes me as game breaking or absolutely must have.
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #953 on: December 28, 2021, 10:07:54 AM »

Previous iteration of Combat tree made little sense to wrap around, since you would get dead skills for every ship that isn't Odyssey on the second pass, and skills from Leadership or Technology trees gave you more power.

intrinsic_parity

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #954 on: December 28, 2021, 10:36:23 AM »

Currently, I run industry skills early, and then re-spec into a more combat focused build once I find good colony locations and do most of the exploration that I want to.

The supply/fuel skills have hard caps on how many supplies and fuel they can save you, so they aren't quite as good in late game IMO.

As to level cap I wouldn't mind 1-2 more skill points. I'm not convinced that being able to get 4 tier 5s would be that much of an issue. I really don't see one or two more skill points trivializing doritos or anything like that.

For me the biggest source of tension in the skill system is still personal skills vs fleet wide skills, because the game is much more fun when your flagship is strong, but I think fleet wide skills are probably still better for overall combat strength.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #955 on: December 28, 2021, 11:44:56 AM »

I would like to see one or few extra skill points granted by completing quests, independent of leveling up, like clearing the Den of Evil in Diablo 2.
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FooF

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #956 on: December 28, 2021, 11:54:32 AM »

I would like to see one or few extra skill points granted by completing quests, independent of leveling up, like clearing the Den of Evil in Diablo 2.

I thought of the Den of Evil about 5 words into that sentence and was pleasantly surprised when you said it.  ;D A point for finishing a quest line would be a pretty good reward.
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Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #957 on: December 28, 2021, 12:09:25 PM »

I would like to see one or few extra skill points granted by completing quests, independent of leveling up, like clearing the Den of Evil in Diablo 2.

I thought of the Den of Evil about 5 words into that sentence and was pleasantly surprised when you said it.  ;D A point for finishing a quest line would be a pretty good reward.
First thing I thought of was Radament or the first boss in the town sewers of Act 2, but that is a bit more obscure.  Den of Evil was the next thing I thought of, and that is the first, intro quest everyone who loaded Diablo 2 does.  The other quest is the Black Book in Act 3, which is at least halfway through.
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wsdude

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #958 on: December 28, 2021, 12:28:20 PM »

The lvl cap needs to either be raised to 20 or there needs to be a fusion of the fuel/supplies skill into 1.They are just too good to pass up and honestly make the game more hassle free/way less tedious.

There are players who do pass them up on some runs.  For me, the end game can be reached and beaten on an Industry 5 + 10 other skills build.  The level cap is mostly an arbitrary limit to make different campaign runs feel different.  If you run the same campaign with essentially the same skills every time, I find them less interesting to replay.  Typically, the argument to raise the level cap would be that the end game is too hard on a 15 skill point budget.  It doesn't help you early or mid-game, but comes into play only for the hardest challenges at the end.

I think 16-19 is a bad number of skill points since it makes getting 4 level 5's in two trees possible (8+8+extra), but not 4 level 5's in 4 different trees (which requires a full 20).  Right now, doing 3 different trees seems reasonable.  16-19 suddenly means taking top skills from only two trees is far more attractive, in some sense reducing diversity due to efficiency of getting four tier 5 skills instead of only 3.

Are people finding end game threats such as <Redacted> and <Super Redacted> too hard to deal with such that 1-5 more skills would be the deciding factor in success?  That would be a stronger argument, at least to me.

As for merging, if the skills already are too good, then merging them to make them better makes them would seem to make that skill even more mandatory.  Which seems counter to what an interesting and diverse skill tree should provide.  If the game is too tedious (which is not clear to me that it is, but certainly different players will have different tolerances and likes in their campaign layer), then I'd suggest advocating that the tedium be addressed at the root cause, as opposed to making mandatory quality of life skills.

On the other hand, arguing the skills are too weak might justify their merger.  As it is, you can get roughly the same fleet performance by adding an additional two destroyer tankers and a cargo cruiser to your fleet line up.  So in the end, it saves you credits, both in initial outlay and over time, but it doesn't strike me as game breaking savings.

TBH I believe the supply skill needs a nerf, it doubles almost any non-capital mass fleets' operational time between docking ports

That does assume you're not engaging in combat, recovering ships, or getting hit by hyperspace storms.  CR restoration from 0% is unaffected by Makeshift Equipment for example, and can be multiple months equivalent.  At the end of the day, for a 100 DP fleet, you're talking about a difference of 50 supplies per month between having the skill or not.  So lets say my typical exploration fleet is 100 DP, and I expect to stay out for a full cycle.  My monthly costs (ignoring all CR restoration) will add up to either 1200 (no skill) or 600 supplies (with skill).  The difference is a little more than a single destroyer's cargo capacity.  A single Buffalo can provide 400*1.3=520 cargo capacity at an additional cost of 3 supplies per month.  Adding a single Colossus potentially adds 1170 cargo capacity.  So in terms of operational time between docking ports, a Colossus might be considered about twice as good as the skill, assuming you typically stay out for a full cycle between stopping at ports.

What it does do is save you probably 5,000 credits plus whatever fuel, crew, and supplies costs for the additional logistic ship.  Call it 10,000 difference a month, plus the initial ship cost of 25,000-60,000 depending on which ship and how you buy it, or potentially 0 if you scavenge it.  It's nice, but nothing that strikes me as game breaking or absolutely must have.


It aint all about money.It's about having to go back and forth to re-supply on a much greater frequency is what annoys me and the less downtime doing tedious stuff the better and getting those 2 skills makes the game less frustrating to play.



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Vind

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Re: Starsector 0.95.1a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #959 on: December 29, 2021, 01:19:04 AM »

I dont understand rationale behind Automated ships AI cores being useless for deploy points purpose on player side yet remnants happily spawn same 13 core fleets and got DP advantage over player every time.
This is another AI can do but player cant mechanic and those are always bad. Mercenaries is more like a throw away money option.
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