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Author Topic: How to better micro-manage colonies while doing other things? (Nexerelin,mostly)  (Read 1975 times)

idiotekque

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Running into some frustration with colonies and doing literally anything but micro-managing them.

It feels like you can either have colonies, or you can explore and invest in other aspects of the game. Doing both, however, feels incredibly tedious and unreasonable. I am running Nexerelin, so that is of course adding to this issue, but I'm just hoping I can figure out a better means to juggling multiple aspects of the game at once without needing to completely focus on the mico-management.

For example, a Tri-Tachyon fleet came to disrupt one of my mining/refining colonies. I hung around in system to deal with them, but the fleet was laughably weak (a couple destroyers, maybe 5 ships), and random fast picket fleets of mine picked them off before I could even join the battle. So, I reloaded and used that time to do some more exploring in the meantime, and what happens? My fleets somehow didn't even interdict the tiny fleet (that they steamrolled when I was in system), and the ground defenses had to deal with them. They did, and they won, yet my industry was STILL disrupted regardless, even though the tooltip said that Tri-Tachyon's attempt failed.

This is what I mean by things feeling like you NEED to be present and micro-managing everything unless you want to fail and get your colonies screwed over at every turn. It feels like an issue.

Also, I currently have no active hostilities, no invasions, etc, so I take that time to go explore. After hitting two systems, I notice all four of my colonies are at much lower stability. Why? Apparently ALL of my comm relays have gone down. Why? Who knows, but I'm now forced to fly all the way back, cancel my entire expedition, just to reactivate the comm relays myself. There really should be a way for your colonies and fleets to handle minor things like this themselves, but as far as I know, they can't.

It honestly feels like you're just forced to micro-manage every last aspect of colony business yourself, with your personal fleet. Got a shortage? You have to pull from stockpiles yourself, with your personal fleet, to move to address said shortages, or your colony is hobbled for x amount of time (when you should just be able to tell your colonies to move those stockpiles around themselves). Some kind of shipment going somewhere? Better escort it personally, lest you risk a high rng rate of losing it, leading to more shortages (for multiple cycles, it feels like I've had "-2 stacks from a lost shipment" active on at least one colony at any point). Literally any sort of invasion or disruption? Good luck leaving that up to your colonies if you aren't personally present, even if it's "likely to be defeated in orbit", because your colonies just cannot consistently handle anything on their own, even with 100% fleet quality and 150%+ fleet sizes on every colony. If you aren't there, things are probably not going to go well.

I know that these frustrations are greatly placed upon Nexerelin adding mechanics to the game that can only be managed so well with what exists in base game thus far (which is probably why they are not yet officially in game in the first place). Having further options of commanding your colonies and AI fleets to do various tasks would alleviate these issues greatly, allowing you greater freedom to take on other tasks instead of being forced to micro-manage colonies to such an extreme level.

So I guess my question is, what suggestions or tips does anyone have to handle colony management while performing other tasks, like exploring, without being forced to cater to your colonies nonstop? I love the colony system for tons of reasons, but I really just wish there was a better way to not sacrifice every other aspect of the game once you colonize anything. It really does feel like you have to choose one or the other, unless you want constant, tedious issues and management.
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Sutopia

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Sounds like a random mod messed with colony. In vanilla I never had to personally participate in the expedition defense battles to prevent industry interruptions, and the comm relays don’t randomly get taken over.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 11:23:51 AM by Sutopia »
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SCC

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Patrols will take comm relays back automatically, though I don't know how long does it take.

idiotekque

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Sounds like a random mod messed with colony. In vanilla I never had to personally participate in the expedition defense battles to prevent industry interruptions, and the comm relays don’t randomly get taken over.

Well, I would imagine that a lot of these mechanics are Nexerelin additions, which is mainly what I'm talking about. I tried to point that out in the OP. There shouldn't be any other mods touching things like this, I have a very lean, inobtrusive list.


Patrols will take comm relays back automatically, though I don't know how long does it take.

Will they really? I guess I'll fly around for a bit and see if that happens, I didn't know that was a thing that happened.

EDIT: On closer inspection, I have no idea what the issue is on the comm relays. It seems like either the game or Nexerelin just decide colonies are lacking relays when they aren't. After a day or two it seems to remember that they exist, and things go back to normal. Very confusing, but maybe not a dramatic issue.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 11:40:14 AM by idiotekque »
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Yunru

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Nex prides itself on launching fleets at you that are guaranteed to be stronger than your defences, iirc without a cap.

What can happen is while in system other fleets hostile to TT, but not of your faction, can also intercept, shifting those numbers. While away from the system, however, the abstraction doesn't take things like that into account.

idiotekque

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Nex prides itself on launching fleets at you that are guaranteed to be stronger than your defences, iirc without a cap.

What can happen is while in system other fleets hostile to TT, but not of your faction, can also intercept, shifting those numbers. While away from the system, however, the abstraction doesn't take things like that into account.

That is kind of unfortunate. I love Nex, in that it pushes the game into a more complex direction with a focus on 4X mechanics, but in a 4X game, it would be absurd to force the player to be personally present in every situation to micro-manage and handle every situation personally. For certain instances, it makes total sense to require your command. Big important invasion? Sure. The 16th Hegemony AI inspection fleet? Eh... And why does that fleet need 3 Onslaughts and 2 Legions?

Like, I appreciate the challenge when I want to duke it out against a faction and have huge, impressive battles. But there's more to the game than that, and it feels like it's just been completely overtaken by massive fleet battles nonstop forced by colony micro-management. It sucks the life out of the other aspects of the game.

What I don't understand with that TT instance, is that the tooltip of the incursion said it was likely to be defeated in orbit. When I was personally there, there were probably 6+ fast pickets nearby the colony they were going after, preparing for the incursion. TT jumps in, 2-3 fast pickets jump them, they instantly die and fail their mission. When I'm not in system? Apparently they just bypass or defeat every fleet in the system, "fail" their disruption mission, yet still disrupt the colony's industry regardless? It just feels completely broken, and forces more player micro-management to avoid those broken results, or just terribly unlucky rng.


EDIT: In the end, I guess I shouldn't be complaining if I install Nexerelin. I'm starting to see that it's a mod that seems to assume if you have it installed, your entire focus is colony management and massive fleet warfare 90% of the time. I just wish there was some sort of middle ground, because I like a lot of things it adds.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 12:06:54 PM by idiotekque »
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Sutopia

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Re: comm relay
I think it’s only not recognized when you load a game. The comm relay should be registered in a day or so after the game load. Otherwise it sounds like a bug.

Kohlenstoff

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The only real nuissance were pathers in game versions before the Bar event and before the active Gates. But now the colonies need not too much babysitting. Just put at least 3 or 4 of them in one system and max the defenses to the top. As long as your colonies are close together and as long as the system is not too big, they should be quite safe. But if you choose to have few colonies in gargantuan blue star systems, it may become a bit harder to leave them alone. More space means less fleets per square.
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Sutopia

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The only real nuissance were pathers in game versions before the Bar event and before the active Gates. But now the colonies need not too much babysitting. Just put at least 3 or 4 of them in one system and max the defenses to the top. As long as your colonies are close together and as long as the system is not too big, they should be quite safe. But if you choose to have few colonies in gargantuan blue star systems, it may become a bit harder to leave them alone. More space means less fleets per square.
FYI the battle is abstracted when you’re away and I don’t believe the size of the system is taken into consideration when an expedition is calculated remotely.

idiotekque

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The only real nuissance were pathers in game versions before the Bar event and before the active Gates. But now the colonies need not too much babysitting. Just put at least 3 or 4 of them in one system and max the defenses to the top. As long as your colonies are close together and as long as the system is not too big, they should be quite safe. But if you choose to have few colonies in gargantuan blue star systems, it may become a bit harder to leave them alone. More space means less fleets per square.

FYI the battle is abstracted when you’re away and I don’t believe the size of the system is taken into consideration when an expedition is calculated remotely.

So, how exactly is it calculated? Because when you look at a situation like the TT one I mentioned, in a system with a size 5 and 6 colony nearby each other, with 100% fleet qualities, 150-200% fleet sizes, against a disruption force of 5 small ships, what in the world kind of calculation allows them to nearly succeed? The calculation seems utterly nonsensical no matter how you cut it.

Like, it would be good to know what those calculations take into account. I was not aware that a tightly packed cluster of colonies in a single system is a helpful setup for that, but that also isn't a "just do this" solution. That takes finding a very specific location, and then you're trading choosing lucrative planets for choosing a defensive location. "Just" finding four tightly packed colony locations, "just" maxing out their defenses... I don't know, that doesn't feel like a "just" to me, that feels like a very, very specific minmax setup to avoid over-the-top micro-managing invasions.
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Kohlenstoff

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The point of the whole game is about min max and most players will never get everything they want. At the end it's all about priorities. And im not the one, who chooes your priorities.

I noticed, that in bigger systems more leftover stray fleets swarm around, while smaller systems get cleaned faster. It's somewhat logical, because the own fleets have less space to spread.
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idiotekque

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The point of the whole game is about min max and most players will never get everything they want. At the end it's all about priorities. And im not the one, who chooes your priorities.

I noticed, that in bigger systems more leftover stray fleets swarm around, while smaller systems get cleaned faster. It's somewhat logical, because the own fleets have less space to spread.

I mean, I don't really think so? I'm not talking about achieving flawless results in every category of the game. I'm talking about having a few colonies, and still being able to explore now and then while your colonies can fend for themselves to some extent without your constant intervention. That really, really should not require minmaxing.

If there is a difference between small and large systems and auto-calculated results, that would be good to know, though. I see that too if I'm present in the system, but I'm not sure if that is a factor when it comes to auto-calc results when you aren't present.
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intrinsic_parity

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I think the game still simulates the fleets flying around in the system just not the combat between individual fleets. Having multiple colonies in the same system just massively increases the number of fleets in the system, increasing the odds of stuff getting intercepted/defeated. I could be wrong about that though.

When I've seen my defenses fail in Nex while they were supposed to win, it's usually because there were multiple events happening at the same time (pirate raids, other expeditions/invasions etc.) and those weakened the defenses temporarily. I don't personally defend anything and with a minimum of 3 colonies, I haven't lost any defenses I wasn't supposed to lose.
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idiotekque

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I think the game still simulates the fleets flying around in the system just not the combat between individual fleets. Having multiple colonies in the same system just massively increases the number of fleets in the system, increasing the odds of stuff getting intercepted/defeated. I could be wrong about that though.

When I've seen my defenses fail in Nex while they were supposed to win, it's usually because there were multiple events happening at the same time (pirate raids, other expeditions/invasions etc.) and those weakened the defenses temporarily. I don't personally defend anything and with a minimum of 3 colonies, I haven't lost any defenses I wasn't supposed to lose.

I will definitely need to slap a third colony into my home system. At the moment I've got a size 6 auric world that's fantastic, and a size 5 mining/refining/heavy industry barren planet that took awhile to be that profitable, but is doing great now. There's an irradiated planet in system that's a bit of a mess, but it does have alright resources, so it probably is worth eating the hazard pay and boosting fleet size in the system.

Sadly, most of the time I am just dealing with Hegemony 90% of the time, who "won" the game a month in, has 11 markets (even after taking two from them), and is a part of a three-way alliance with the Church and Diktat, so I would imagine that just massively boosts their fleet size for invasions and whatnot. When they send inspection fleets, they always, always have 4+ battleship/battlecarriers, every time. Maybe that's just a normal thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's influenced by their market size or something. Unfortunately, I don't think my system is ever going to rebuff things like that on their own.
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Sutopia

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I think the game still simulates the fleets flying around in the system just not the combat between individual fleets. Having multiple colonies in the same system just massively increases the number of fleets in the system, increasing the odds of stuff getting intercepted/defeated. I could be wrong about that though.

When I've seen my defenses fail in Nex while they were supposed to win, it's usually because there were multiple events happening at the same time (pirate raids, other expeditions/invasions etc.) and those weakened the defenses temporarily. I don't personally defend anything and with a minimum of 3 colonies, I haven't lost any defenses I wasn't supposed to lose.

I’m fairly certain the game doesn’t actually simulate the fleet when you’re afar. I am friendly to practically every faction. Pirate would send trade fleets to me and they would get crushed by other factions’ trade fleet, creating local deficits despite being in-faction supply. However, if I just go do my own stuff in core world or go explore the other side of the sector, there is never a deficit.
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