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Author Topic: why can i dock at stations under siege?  (Read 1244 times)

6chad.noirlee9

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why can i dock at stations under siege?
« on: July 25, 2021, 05:19:15 PM »

anyway this is something i have just recently contemplated

if anyone has any neat ideas regarding this, please share!
i remember the mount and blade approach being "attempt to sneak in" though im not entirely sure that would work here, unless you have a shuttle and only want to talk to someone
perhaps multiple options could exist, as in other situations?
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TaLaR

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2021, 10:56:18 PM »

Because is faction A fights faction B and you can't or don't want to join either you'd be stuck?
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Yunru

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 12:20:01 AM »

Why wouldn't you be able to? You can only dock at a station if you're friendly after all, so why would they turn down an ally seeking shelter?

JAL28

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2021, 02:05:42 AM »

I mean, in lore the "station" which you fight is only the uppermost "combat" portion of the station. As can be inferred from Jangala Station(which orbits on its side), the combat portion of the stations is only a small portion of the station itself, and there are likely many, many hab-modules and docking facilities under said station that never participate in combat and remain open for anyone to just swoop in, with or without docking clearance.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2021, 04:27:56 AM »

I mean, in lore the "station" which you fight is only the uppermost "combat" portion of the station. As can be inferred from Jangala Station(which orbits on its side), the combat portion of the stations is only a small portion of the station itself, and there are likely many, many hab-modules and docking facilities under said station that never participate in combat and remain open for anyone to just swoop in, with or without docking clearance.

that somewhat makes sense.  after all, bombing the "civilian" areas would be a big no no across most factions in the sector, however, with a fleet blockading the station to siege it it just doesnt make sense to me to be able to dock in ALL situations
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Deshara

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2021, 07:58:18 AM »

tbh theres already a behavior in which attempting to salvage while in reinforcement range of a salvage fleet causes it to attack you before you can salvage the thing. doesnt seem like that much of a stretch for any (non-friendly) fleet to intercept your fleet if you attempt to dock. if it's an inspection fleet they can just treat every ship that comes & goes like a patrol that spotted you doing illicit stuff & search you for AI cores, if it's a warfleet it could just trigger a disengage battle to get to the station (assuming u dont choose the fight them option) & if your fleet is too big you can't sneak by at all bc u arent set up to be capable of smuggling operations
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Yunru

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 07:58:33 AM »

Well the fleet's not blockading the station, are they? They're engaging it in combat. Blockading would be if they hung around and destroyed any nearby fleets... like a blockade does.

Deshara

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 10:05:46 AM »

yeah, true. So I guess attempting to dock with a station under attack should force the player to either engage on the station's side, engage on the invader's side, or leave
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 12:20:44 PM »

Well the fleet's not blockading the station, are they? They're engaging it in combat. Blockading would be if they hung around and destroyed any nearby fleets... like a blockade does.

yeah, true. So I guess attempting to dock with a station under attack should force the player to either engage on the station's side, engage on the invader's side, or leave

This only begs a larger question... why can't fleets blockade ports/space stations in the game?  Game already literally has an accessibility stat to measure a colony's access to the sector, so why is there no blockade behavior (besides the obvious answer that it will be added later, prolly around the same time a player's colonies can finally start sending attack fleets out).
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Kohlenstoff

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2021, 01:41:46 PM »

Your fleet can blockade a station or planet. Enemy presence can too. Because any fleet orbits the station or planet for a while to unload and load cargo. You just need to attack and destroy anything coming closer. And actually this is, what causes many of the fleet losses. Weaker fleets will actually not approach a planet, when your fleet orbits it.

Only player fleet cannot be blocked as easy. But of course it can be blocked by presence of non combating enemies too.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 01:43:33 PM by Kohlenstoff »
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KDR_11k

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2021, 02:36:33 PM »

This only begs a larger question... why can't fleets blockade ports/space stations in the game?  Game already literally has an accessibility stat to measure a colony's access to the sector, so why is there no blockade behavior (besides the obvious answer that it will be added later, prolly around the same time a player's colonies can finally start sending attack fleets out).

The station is dominating the orbit, I don't think a blockade fleet would be able to operate within the station's area of influence and the area immediately outside of the station's range is too large for a single fleet to effectively cover. The closest thing to a blockade is hanging around and raiding convoys.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2021, 08:04:08 AM »

perhaps one way to handle this would be invasion/attack fleets having several smaller fleets acting as a blockade (by not eactually engaging with the rest of the fleets) and flying around the station preventing access by engaging (thereby dragging them into the battle)

really though, my idea, is that anyone who isnt freindly with the attacking forces and their fleet comes into contact (either literally touches the enemy fleet bubble) or isnt small enough to wiz by the attackers (maybe a ratio of your fleet to theres) or decides to have an (attempt to disengage) scenario where they must flee to the top edge (where the station is waiting) and if they manage to retreat those ships that make it are now docked, and you have to do the same thing to leave

OR if your fleet is small enough/decides to send a few smaller faster ships (ships with high enough s/u vs attacking fleet with a bonus of some kind for phase ships) whereby being fast enough means no disengage to the station scenario.

this is all assuming coding this is really feasible; hopefully at least some of these ideas make it into 1.0
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Deshara

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2021, 10:20:58 AM »

Well the fleet's not blockading the station, are they? They're engaging it in combat. Blockading would be if they hung around and destroyed any nearby fleets... like a blockade does.

yeah, true. So I guess attempting to dock with a station under attack should force the player to either engage on the station's side, engage on the invader's side, or leave

This only begs a larger question... why can't fleets blockade ports/space stations in the game?  Game already literally has an accessibility stat to measure a colony's access to the sector, so why is there no blockade behavior (besides the obvious answer that it will be added later, prolly around the same time a player's colonies can finally start sending attack fleets out).

they can. theres an accessibility stat that is driven down by fleets not making it to the planet with goods, which then leads on to impact the planet's stability as its infrastructures break down, which will eventually decivilize the planet. So, fleets can already blockade a planet to death. It's just, Alex didn't code the AI to actually do that bc it wouldnt be good for the game for it to happen
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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2021, 01:39:10 PM »

Well the fleet's not blockading the station, are they? They're engaging it in combat. Blockading would be if they hung around and destroyed any nearby fleets... like a blockade does.

yeah, true. So I guess attempting to dock with a station under attack should force the player to either engage on the station's side, engage on the invader's side, or leave

This only begs a larger question... why can't fleets blockade ports/space stations in the game?  Game already literally has an accessibility stat to measure a colony's access to the sector, so why is there no blockade behavior (besides the obvious answer that it will be added later, prolly around the same time a player's colonies can finally start sending attack fleets out).

they can. theres an accessibility stat that is driven down by fleets not making it to the planet with goods, which then leads on to impact the planet's stability as its infrastructures break down, which will eventually decivilize the planet. So, fleets can already blockade a planet to death. It's just, Alex didn't code the AI to actually do that bc it wouldnt be good for the game for it to happen

As far as I understand, that use of the accessibility stat is essentially used to roughly measure "average" piracy (among other things) as it occurs against some colony.  NOT completely blocking accessibility.  So instigating a blockade would literally immediately drop accessibility stat to zero.  Just wouldn't also kill the space station protecting the planet, necessitating some sort of relief fleet to be deployed to end the blockade.  Hence why I pointed out that it might just be implemented LATER.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: why can i dock at stations under siege?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 01:18:03 PM »

i think the best approach would be a time sensitive one, wherein if you come about as soon as the battle starts youd have trouble, and if it is later depending on who is winning youd have troubles, only less so
like depending on relative fleet sizes and whether the station is winning or not (and dispositions) you may have to fight a break off version of the fleet attacking, which should be factored into the ongoing battle

honestly that sounds like a lot of coding for something so simple, so really i think a one size fits all approach would be something similar to the way mount and blade handles things

i mean, it just doesnt make sense to me that youd be able to dock at a station under attack, whereas you COULD dock at a planet with a battlestation while it is under attack.

i mean there really is room for nuance here

say, a really large fleet is attacking a station (orbiting a planet wherein much of the population and infrastructure is planet based) wherein they could easily break off a detachment to mess with you, you would have to "deal with them," meaning a dialogue screen (open comms engage disengage etc).

if you want to dock at a small, self contained station, well tough luck as its in lockdown because its being attacked.

a larger (say, size 6) station on the other hand may be big enough that the fleets occupied with the main battlestation part are far enough away from the docking area (again, if the fleet is of appropriate size that it cant send a breakaway force to see whats up with you) you could still dock, albeit perhaps with limited functionality.

i mean, why would a fleet that is CLEARLY at war with the station be ok with ANYONE docking there?

it doesnt make much sense to me.

besides that, its not as if it would take them THAT long to fly around to whatever side of the station youre trying to dock with and say "hey, whats up.  you gonna help us out here, or get lost?  cause were kinda trying to screw the place up"

anyway, this is just an idea for the future more than anything, and as time goes on i would like to see something done to adress this, personally, because its what i think lol
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