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[WeiTuLo]

The regular Atlas and Prometheus went from 10 fuel/LY to 6 fuel/LY, while the MK II versions are still at 10 fuel/LY. Would be great if the MK II versions also went down to 6 fuel/LY.

For the Buffalo MK II, it is a really interesting ship, but it costs 2 fuel/LY and has only 120 seconds of peak performance time. If PPT could be increased/fuel cost decreased, perhaps it could see more use.

Perhaps the Buffalo MK II could get a hullmod that prevents in-space refits from reducing CR below 50, or cap its CR at 50 and prevent in-space refits from reducing CR. It would fit the theme of the ship as an adaptable, ad-hoc and jury-rigged ship.

[Warnoise]

Also Prometheus mk2 and Atlas mk2 should have built in militarized subsystem

[WeiTuLo]

When I use them, I prefer to leave out military subsystems to keep the crew requirements low. Otherwise it's 500ish crew per ship.

[intrinsic_parity]

The capitals will single handedly ruin the sensor profile and burn of your fleet without MS. You have to invest tons of OP just to make them usable ships before you can even spend OP on combat related stuff. I think built in MS would be nice just to free up a bit of OP. I'll still never use them though. You're better off with some high end cruisers.

[KDR_11k]

The capitals will single handedly ruin the sensor profile and burn of your fleet without MS. You have to invest tons of OP just to make them usable ships before you can even spend OP on combat related stuff. I think built in MS would be nice just to free up a bit of OP. I'll still never use them though. You're better off with some high end cruisers.

Bulk Shipping negates the need for MS for burn speed.

[intrinsic_parity]

The capitals will single handedly ruin the sensor profile and burn of your fleet without MS. You have to invest tons of OP just to make them usable ships before you can even spend OP on combat related stuff. I think built in MS would be nice just to free up a bit of OP. I'll still never use them though. You're better off with some high end cruisers.

Bulk Shipping negates the need for MS for burn speed.

It's true MS doesn't even do enough to make Atlas/Promethus MK II useable. You still only have 7 burn with +1. You need ADF to use those ships in a cruiser fleet without losing burn. If you already have 7 burn capitals, there's pretty much no reason to use them.

[WeiTuLo]

I don't mind if ADF is built in, would save an Smod slot. 

[Realm]

The capitals will single handedly ruin the sensor profile and burn of your fleet without MS. You have to invest tons of OP just to make them usable ships before you can even spend OP on combat related stuff. I think built in MS would be nice just to free up a bit of OP. I'll still never use them though. You're better off with some high end cruisers.

I really hate the idea of ships with built-in Militarized Subsystems in this latest patch, given it makes those ships potentially worse than worthless for playing using the Auxiliary Support skill. It's for the same reason I despise every idea to do things like make the Mule a civ-grade with built-in militarized, as I'd just stop using the ship entirely. It's a cute thing for Hegemony Auxiliaries because it fits their theme (and is effectively a niche variant of the vessel), where they 'properly' militarize their civilian vessels instead of the Pirate way of jury-rigging and haphazard modifications.

[intrinsic_parity]

I really hate the idea of ships with built-in Militarized Subsystems in this latest patch, given it makes those ships potentially worse than worthless for playing using the Auxiliary Support skill.

We're talking about the combat ships that you would specifically take that skill to benefit though? Like I can't imagine taking auxiliary support and then using a bunch of civilian military ships without trying to buff them with the skill. The skill also sucks too, you have to burn so many OP just to get the benefits of the skill, and most civilian ships don't have a ton of OP to begin with. The whole idea behind the skill doesn't really work IMO.

[Realm]

We're talking about the combat ships that you would specifically take that skill to benefit though? Like I can't imagine taking auxiliary support and then using a bunch of civilian military ships without trying to buff them with the skill. The skill also sucks too, you have to burn so many OP just to get the benefits of the skill, and most civilian ships don't have a ton of OP to begin with. The whole idea behind the skill doesn't really work IMO.

To the contrary, no. You take the skill to generally benefit either a single large vessel like an Atlas II/Venture, or a few smaller vessels like Kites. Whatever you use it for precludes ever using ANY other militarized vessel in your fleet. As-is, the skill does work, it just has a very specialist-focused offering: Making a very, very small portion of your fleet more powerful. In a sense, it's akin to running Automated Ships - you do it with a very specific strategy in mind around a large vessel or a few smaller ones.

When you suddenly make the hullmod a 'default', you run into an issue currently limited (in vanilla) to the fleet carrier skills: You suddenly don't want extra militarized vessels in your fleet, only very specific vessels. In the case of the carrier skills this applies to fighter bays, with logistic/support vessels like the Gemini or Colossus Mk. III suddenly becoming worse-than-worthless trash just by existence of their fighter bays nerfing your combat carriers.

As-is, when using the skill you burn less OP on average than SO for a significant overall boost to the performance of the very specific ship you want boosted. This can turn an Atlas II into a respectable kinetic-focused artillery platform, or a Venture into a Capital-grade armour tank. I haven't experimented closely enough with the smaller vanilla vessels to get a feel for Auxiliary Support builds for them, but neither of the two I mentioned run into any OP problems using Auxiliary Support.

[intrinsic_parity]

We're talking about the combat ships that you would specifically take that skill to benefit though? Like I can't imagine taking auxiliary support and then using a bunch of civilian military ships without trying to buff them with the skill. The skill also sucks too, you have to burn so many OP just to get the benefits of the skill, and most civilian ships don't have a ton of OP to begin with. The whole idea behind the skill doesn't really work IMO.

To the contrary, no. You take the skill to generally benefit either a single large vessel like an Atlas II/Venture, or a few smaller vessels like Kites. Whatever you use it for precludes ever using ANY other militarized vessel in your fleet. As-is, the skill does work, it just has a very specialist-focused offering: Making a very, very small portion of your fleet more powerful. In a sense, it's akin to running Automated Ships - you do it with a very specific strategy in mind around a large vessel or a few smaller ones.

When you suddenly make the hullmod a 'default', you run into an issue currently limited (in vanilla) to the fleet carrier skills: You suddenly don't want extra militarized vessels in your fleet, only very specific vessels. In the case of the carrier skills this applies to fighter bays, with logistic/support vessels like the Gemini or Colossus Mk. III suddenly becoming worse-than-worthless trash just by existence of their fighter bays nerfing your combat carriers.

As-is, when using the skill you burn less OP on average than SO for a significant overall boost to the performance of the very specific ship you want boosted. This can turn an Atlas II into a respectable kinetic-focused artillery platform, or a Venture into a Capital-grade armour tank. I haven't experimented closely enough with the smaller vanilla vessels to get a feel for Auxiliary Support builds for them, but neither of the two I mentioned run into any OP problems using Auxiliary Support.

Mom can we have automated ships
Mom: No we have Automated ships at home
Automated ships at home: auxiliary support (lmao)

In all seriousness, I am literally talking about atlas MK II which is the ship you mentioned as one you would want to buff with AS. I've tried to do that, but the issue is just that ship doesn't have enough OP, and burning 20% of it's OP just to leverage the skill with MS + assault package. Plus even with just one Atlas MK II, the AS bonus is already like only 150% which just kinda gets it back to normal capital stats, not even particularly good stats. The ships is still bad with AS, because it has awful dissipation and is super OP starved, and AS doesn't fix either of those problems. At least built in MS would help make your one altas MK II a bit better by freeing up 25 OP.

[KDR_11k]

The OP cost could be somewhat remedied by making the packages include mil-sub's effect so you could just build in the package as a single s-mod rather than needing two mods to make it work (excluding the current exploit of building in the package and removing mil-sub). The packages are fairly useless without the skill to buff them so that wouldn't be overpowered.

[Realm]

In all seriousness, I am literally talking about atlas MK II which is the ship you mentioned as one you would want to buff with AS. I've tried to do that, but the issue is just that ship doesn't have enough OP, and burning 20% of it's OP just to leverage the skill with MS + assault package. Plus even with just one Atlas MK II, the AS bonus is already like only 150% which just kinda gets it back to normal capital stats, not even particularly good stats. The ships is still bad with AS, because it has awful dissipation and is super OP starved, and AS doesn't fix either of those problems. At least built in MS would help make your one altas MK II a bit better by freeing up 25 OP.

I wouldn't be against Aux Support giving you an 'extra s-mod slot' available exclusively for Militarized Subsystems, but I disagree that an Atlas II is truly OP-starved. You just need to be a bit more focused in your build; be willing to sacrifice PD, the missiles, shields or anything your build 'won't need' to optimize the flux stats and more importantly optimize how your Officer will pilot it. It's a good gunship/missile boat/artillery platform for it's DP that can be built in a plethora of ways, you just need to specialize it for your fleet's needs.

[WeiTuLo]

Yep, I want to bring a couple ships with two Accelerated Ammo Feeder Gauss Cannons and two ECCM Hurricanes to battle for 24 DP each. Would be interesting I think. Going to 6 fuel/LY like regular Atlas and regular Prometheus would help.

[intrinsic_parity]

I wouldn't be against Aux Support giving you an 'extra s-mod slot' available exclusively for Militarized Subsystems, but I disagree that an Atlas II is truly OP-starved. You just need to be a bit more focused in your build; be willing to sacrifice PD, the missiles, shields or anything your build 'won't need' to optimize the flux stats and more importantly optimize how your Officer will pilot it. It's a good gunship/missile boat/artillery platform for it's DP that can be built in a plethora of ways, you just need to specialize it for your fleet's needs.

You start off behind other ships of similar value. Atlas MK II has the base flux stats and hull/armor of a falcon. You have to spend a ton of OP just to get the basic stats of a standard 25 DP cruiser, before you think about decent weapons and hullmods. On top of that you need to compensate for sensor/burn/logistics which are all as bad or worse than a proper capital, even though you are barely getting the combat value of a decent cruiser. All the other ships start ahead and then spend their OP to get even more ahead. Any 25-30 DP cruiser is better value IMO, and certainly I would rather have a proper capital ship. Every capital ship is more than worth the extra DP over atlas MK. II, and every cruiser is better value in the mid game before you drop to 7 burn and stop caring about sensor profile.