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Author Topic: How strong can we make skills before we start breaking the game?  (Read 1827 times)

intrinsic_parity

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Re: How strong can we make skills before we start breaking the game?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2021, 02:15:37 PM »

I think the best colony strategy is probably just grabbing any 150% hazard baren worlds you can find with max accessibility in duzahk or whatever and then maybe considering looking for a second system for resources you don't have later. Refining and fuel with items are some of the best income, and I'm pretty sure the accessibility is much more significant than 50 hazard for a habitable world.
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Lucky33

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Re: How strong can we make skills before we start breaking the game?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2021, 03:14:48 AM »


I could bring Noita as example of the game with the skills what can be considered completely wacky although game itself is perfectly balanced and difficulty is considered of being way above average. The solution is pretty obvious - RNG. To form the omnipotent skill set you need to survive for long what requires very high level of game's mastery or be god level lucky in the first place.

Rogue-likes designed for many, many runs can work well that way.  Starsector I think is intended to be a bit slower of a game, with more investment in each run.  As it is right now, you can survive a long time without even fighting, or by fighting only fights you think you can win, so I'm not sure the same skill set design philosophy would work.  Finding skills randomly (like exploration goodies) or being given a limited selection after significant battles would certainly feel different, but probably result in more save/reloads, or more abandoned runs if the skill selection presented was set in stone at game's beginning.

In my experience, "god run" in Noita takes more time than in Starsector. More prerequisites for the OP setup plus RNG nature of the progression. Investment wise, probability of getting the op set is proportional to time. The longer you play the higher the chances to get it. And it is exponential in nature since some of the skills are boosting the skill acquisition rates. Also, skill rerolls are part of the game design. No need to save scum really.

Starsector provides fixed skill tree with the freedom of choice limited only by obtaining the skill points. It creates the very problem we all are experiencing right now. Some picks are clearly better than the other. The attempts to balance them will end up in a situation when you wouldn't even need skills to begin with.

It's true if you've got pretty basic skill systems, like +5% damage, +5% defenses, etc that stack up to generic bonuses at the end meant to make bigger number bosses doable, then yeah, the game essentially isn't providing you anything different than simply having no skills versus smaller number bosses.  It becomes progression for progression's sake.

This is why I'm advocating for theme trees and capstones which are as crazy as possible - as then they start to define a style.  For example, a frigate only fleet plays and feels different from a capital heavy fleet, which plays and feels different from phase fleet.  If each of those is viable and desirable at max level, then that's probably a good think.

And with that I concur.
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ElPresidente

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Re: How strong can we make skills before we start breaking the game?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2021, 01:46:24 AM »

I want Field Repairs because Restore is generally very expensive.  I wish Field Repairs will repair faster so that it does not take forever to repair more than a few ships.

Why does everything have to be trough skills?

Have repair ships with a hullmod that boosts fleet-wide repair. Then bring them along.
It makes more sense than magic skills.
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Megas

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Re: How strong can we make skills before we start breaking the game?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2021, 08:24:08 AM »

I want Field Repairs because Restore is generally very expensive.  I wish Field Repairs will repair faster so that it does not take forever to repair more than a few ships.

Why does everything have to be trough skills?

Have repair ships with a hullmod that boosts fleet-wide repair. Then bring them along.
It makes more sense than magic skills.
Thank Restore for being extremely expensive, and Orbital Works being unable to transfer s-mods from a clunker to a new identical hull.  Because of that, Field Repairs is the only cheap way to remove d-mods.  Last release, I scuttled clunkers and built new ships, but addition of s-mods this release has killed that option.  (I know about the refund of bonus xp Alex is working on, but that limits it to a few ships at a time given the backlog of bonus xp.)

It would be nice if d-mod removal was automatic like other repairs, no skill required.  Or just have d-mod removal of current Field Repairs be free while Field Repairs speed that up to a d-mod per month or faster.  Of course, just make Restore cost no more than a new ship and I probably would use it more instead of beelining for Field Repairs for d-mod removal.
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