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0.91

109 (52.2%)

0.95

100 (47.8%)

Total Members Voted: 209

Voting closed: June 02, 2021, 10:12:39 PM

[SCC]

I assume the rationale is that for some players, combat skills are the optimal skills. In 0.9.1, it was the case for me. In this version, too many combat tree skills are wasted, and I don't like phase ships (though if I did use them, Doom would be better than ever, thanks to some skills... Key word: some) so I'm not abusing them.

[Ad Astra]

Alex has solidly denied this path. I have proposed it once and it got turned down immediately.

My sadnery knows no bounds. 

Then skill system should guarantee that player won't be left inferior to an average officer. It's just immensely not fun even in cases when it works. Like separate point pool that can be spent only on personal skills (you can spend general purpose points to go above minimum investment).

Yeah, I feel like he isn't making his own job easier very often. Balancing some things the way they are is hard as nuts, on the other hand I'm a very stubborn person myself at times, so I understand wanting to fulfil your expectations about something even if it costs.

[Helldiver]

I like the new system better overall, but I hate the skills that fluctuate based on deployment points. For example the one about using militarized civilian ships as combat ships, is designed in a way where the only good use is to buff a single bigger ship and remove every other civ ship from your fleet.

I love Derelict Contingent.

[Igncom1]

Anything is better then putting useless points into aptitude points.

[WeiTuLo]

The old system was more suited towards having an uncapped level. Doing so in the new one would make story points take longer to get as well. Hitting max level also felt a lot faster in the new one, additional levels would have been great. Getting rid of aptitude points was also good.

[Sutopia]

I think I should have added the option to choose .72 when aptitude points actually had effects.
I should also have added the disclaimer to disregard re-spec as it’s not the core of the discussion but is used commonly as the tie breaker.

[WeiTuLo]

Oh what did they do in 0.72? I wasn't here for that.

[Pappus]

It is disheartening to see such a poll just after you released something new like this.

Personally they feel largely the same to me.

[Sutopia]

Oh what did they do in 0.72? I wasn't here for that.

It is like .91 but the skills were more granular. Each skill has a maximum of 10 levels but each player level grants you multiple points. Most skills have power spike at level 5 and level 10.
Aptitudes back in .72 provided some generic boost such as CR % per level and other things I can’t really remember atm.

[Eji1700]

I have some nitpicks/issues but the new system is better overall.  It's going to take some polishing/balance but putting points in "industry" so you can choose industry skills was just bleh.

I don't love how the skills are allocated in either system (tech/industry/fleet being generic with pilot being ship specific, and of course a random smattering through other 3). but I like the idea of "pick one, not both, unless you wrap around".

I do think that "generic" bonuses might help.  Like you get 3 points in fleet and you always get X, no matter what 3 you chose.  It would help with some of the MUST HAVE picks.

[Histidine]

0.72 skill system was almost a straight-up worse version of 0.9.1 skill system. 10 levels per aptitude/skill, making up a stream of 1% buffs punctuated by interesting perks at very specific levels.

[Nao]

Don't hate the new system but feel like it's a step back on conceptual level. It's hard to mess up even when not reading ahead. Kind of "easy to learn and easier to master" type of deal. And you spend way less time building the character than before, which tbh i'd love to go the other way.

In 0.95 you can blindly gun for "must have skills" and give little thought to anything else along the way. In 0.91 even if you had whole build planned from day 1 you still had to pick skills in order based on what was happening in space (what you've found, what type of gameplay you want to pursue early or mid game etc.) it was involving and fun process.

IMHO the best part of Starsector is that it's open ended with enough safety nets so a player can fun while making mistakes. 0.95 skill system seems to turn away from that. I understand the appeal of streamlining game mechanics but character building feels like a great place to have it's own "minigame". Give the player ability to mess up, or to go "his way". I'd personally go for more skills (like in 0.91 which had like 87?) open them from lvl1, put in tiers, higher tier = more costly in exp (by a lot), and balance everything around cost reductions and penalties for tiers and individual skills in similar way 0.91 aptitudes and 0.95 pick 1 of 2 go.

Speaking of, I always felt the "aptitudes" weren't bad, just not fleshed enough to feel good. Idea to have build with one specialization to invest heavily to get "must have" skills, and some sidegrades in other trees from sounds great. The failure of aptitudes IMHO was that "must haves" were everything and sidegrades nothing. But having individual skill cost that changes as the build goes forward could balance it out. And half of the game is apprising value of stuff already so even if it looked like complicated system on the surface it would fit right in. Imagine being able to take all low tier skills and not be punished too much, or get a late game skill early on at big cost, or spend hours brainstorming a build. 0.91 is closer to that than 0.95 and so vote was on former.

[Mordodrukow]

Aptitudes in 9.1 were the good part of skill system imo. I mean: you can deep for 1-2 skills in one line, but you also need to put points in aptitude to do that, which means that 1 skill will cost you twice more, 2 skills will cost you 50% more. The more skills you have in line, the cheaper they get. And it was really smart. Now we have tier system instead. It is not strictly worse, just different (for me, at least).

But i can agree that spending point into nothing feels kinda bad. It is ok, when you have 50 skill points, but pretty bad when you have 15. Maybe if the aptitude points would give some kind of bonuses on their own, or enhance the skills associated with them, it would feel better. For example: you need only few skills at tier 2 in Leadership, but level 3 aptitude makes them more powerful, so you have a reason to put a point in aptitude.

Also i want to say: even if we will get phase OPness fixed, Derelict contingent reworked, ability to pick alternative skills in already opened tiers and more adequate DP limits, there will be people who want 9.1 system back. Now we have 55/45 percent distribution. Then it will be 25/75, i guess. May be 20/80. It is still big part of comunity. So, what i want to say: different people want to play game in different ways. Some like the level cap. Some want the ability to pick every skill. One of the 9.5 goals was to make skill system more newbie friendly, but some people want hardcore character building like in PoE. So, maybe it is better to make mods implementing different systems? Is it possible?

[SCC]

In 0.95 you can blindly gun for "must have skills" and give little thought to anything else along the way. In 0.91 even if you had whole build planned from day 1 you still had to pick skills in order based on what was happening in space (what you've found, what type of gameplay you want to pursue early or mid game etc.) it was involving and fun process.

I actually went straight for must haves or held off until I had ~20 points, because of decision paralysis. It didn't really matter what was happening or what ships I had, because I could do everything no matter the skills. There's not much difference between 0.9.1 and 0.95 for me.

[Draba]

Now we have 55/45 percent distribution. Then it will be 25/75, i guess. May be 20/80. It is still big part of comunity.

Note that only a tiny fraction of players use the forums, and a small fraction of those who do voted in the poll.
People who feel they have been personally wronged by the skill changes are also much more likely to click on a thread like this.
Probably better not to read too much into it, beyond being a source of discussion.