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Author Topic: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal  (Read 2737 times)

Sarissofoi

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2021, 03:19:03 PM »

The cool solution would be instead of turning stations into scrap make them permanent.
Like you could drop loot there and make a base or even renovate it.
 

bobucles

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2021, 04:08:33 PM »

It sounds like the extra loot talent needs an additional bonus to make stabilizing orbits far cheaper.

Milk

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2021, 03:35:33 AM »

Starsector has a wide spectrum of profit from activities, and hauling garbage from the rim for maybe a 20% profit on the fuel and supplies you spent is pretty low on that spectrum. I don't understand the obsession with ore just because it came out of some vintage space junk instead of a merchant fleet. I mean, surely nobody goes pirate for ore, right? You space that crap, take the goodies and move on.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2021, 11:49:27 AM »

It sounds like the extra loot talent needs an additional bonus to make stabilizing orbits far cheaper.
I'd say that you could full on eliminate the costs and it would still be balanced due to how little people use it
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2021, 12:02:30 PM »

I'm honestly not really sure why the supply cost exists for stabilizing. I guess it's supposed to prevent you from feeling obligated to go and get every bit of loot you couldn't carry, but I feel like the supply/fuel cost of going back is already enough of a cost that no one would do that. Maybe it's a performance thing and preventing a situation where supply pods are everywhere is the goal?
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Razor Feather

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2021, 02:30:37 PM »

I think that's just there to make some sense lore wise (and I love it), salvage skills however, should probably bring back the good old rare finds though. You don't really earn good money through salvage, it's mostly there to support your survey/scan missions and your search for sweet sweet rare items and blueprints.
Salvage skills could even be about finding more clues about hidden stashes of goodies and the like. Salvage is about the joy of exploration and discovery, not about getting some more of those things you can easily buy when in the core worlds. Salvage skills should support and improve that exciting part of the experience.
The issue with rare find chance, or how it is more commonly termed in rpgs, magic find, is that it inherently promotes and rewards a lot of player activity that is really tedious/gamey, and penalizes a lot of normal play. This is especially true when the opportunities for "rare stuff" are concentrated and finite, like they tend to be in Starsector. Basically, by having a bonus for your chance to find rare, nonrenewable items, then any time you open a station (or a chest) without that bonus, you are wasting some quantity of those special items, since there is no way to try again with your improved odds later.

This then encourages you to always swap to having that bonus active whenever you are about to open something, so as to not waste that chance. In starsector the somewhat high cost of respeccing into and out of skills does help discourage this, but especially for research stations or motherships, which have a pretty high chance of having something special in them, it ends up paying to actively avoid breaking them right away, and instead marking down their location so you can come back when you have the relevant skill equipped and grab a whole bunch of that sort of thing at once. It could end up amounting to paying a couple skill points for say, 5-6 extra colony items, which you would never be able to acquire had you just played naturally.

It also defacto punishes the player for going out and exploring before you have the relevant skill unlocked, even if you do fully intend to unlock and keep it later. This means that if you plan to use that skill long term, you are really heavily pushed to grab it early, so as to not miss out on permanent loot.

Ultimately having the salvage loot boosting skill boost rare find chance isn't the worst thing of this sort, since star sector does have a meaningful cost in game resources to swap things around, instead of just costing 10 seconds of inventory management before opening every single chest as some games have it, but its still really just not a great modifier to include.

Alternatively, your suggestion of giving you clues as to where good loot can be found is *much* better in my opinion, as it preserves the goal of "Exploration oriented players should get access to more shinies" without actually making permanent changes to what the player will or will not be able to attain in a given playthrough based on whether or not they have the skill active at a particular time. It also provides more clear results, ie "Hey, this neat skill has pointed me to 3 nanoforges! Its so helpful!" rather than "Well, I have 5 nanoforges, and I have 50% bonus find chance, but without that skill I could have gotten 0-5 nanoforges from the exact same actions anyway, so who knows if its actually doing any good".
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Ad Astra

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2021, 03:39:52 PM »

Yeah, I agree with all of that, modifying the amount of limited drops always feels dirty, finding them easier for those who don't want to comb through the sector however makes for an optional but powerful skill.
Alternative skill, everything stays the same but I get the Zelda music when opening chests every time I salvage a research station  ;D
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bobucles

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Re: Finding 55K ore in one station is not ideal
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2021, 05:10:27 PM »

It sounds like the extra loot talent needs an additional bonus to make stabilizing orbits far cheaper.
I'd say that you could full on eliminate the costs and it would still be balanced due to how little people use it
That's... actually pretty fair. Players already assume the full cost of an extra trip when they stabilize an orbit. That's a cost of fuel, fleet upkeep and time, which naturally grows with the size of the loot being stabilized. Does there really need to be a fourth expense on top of it?

All the loot needs is a marker in the galactic map. That's enough incentive to only mark the things that matter and avoid cluttering the UI with garbage.
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