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[Warnoise]

Considering how rare they are and how hyped up in the story they are, I was expecting them to be absolute beasts in battle. When I bought my first xiv dominator (double the price of the original dominator) I was expecting some op monster of a cruise who could make a difference in the battlefield.

Well to my dismay, the ship felt arguable even worse than the original. It was slow and sluggish as hell making it extremely hard to aim properly with its main weapons at anything faster than an onslaught. So I though, did I pay double the price for a measle 100 armor and little bit of flux capacity? Well at least the original dominator is already kinda slow so it wasn't that big of a loss.

The xiv falcon, enforcer and eagle are downward Garbage. Paying a higher price for a slow orange junk that can't handle a high tech frigate on its own is a net loss that made every battle higher than pirates a huge challenge.

The only xiv ship worth its price is the legion. Those 2 large missile slots are good. Xiv onslaught is a little bit better than the original but still not worth its price (almost as expensive as an effing paragon ffs)

XIV hullmod is an absolute garbage and need a total buff to make the ships worth their price. I like the vayra XIV hullmod better since it goes well with the elite style of those ships.

[Megas]

I just encountered a pristine Onslaught XIV in hyperspace, but I need to spend a story point with no bonus XP to recover it.  I am considering leaving it behind since I already have few pristine capitals that includes an Onslaught in storage, and I am lugging a four d-mod Paragon around until Field Repairs works its magic and removes all of the d-mods it has.

Eventually, I plan to raid for blueprints.

[pairedeciseaux]

I agree the max speed reduction is a serious debuff, especially on Falcon XIV. Though I wouldn't call that garbage, it's a max speed / armor trade-off, and you pay a premium for the paint.

Next time, try before you buy read the stats before you buy! 

Haven't looked as the whole XIV lineup in details. I suspect, if those ships were to be buffed, then deployment cost would be raised too. Or they would need to be different like Legion and Legion XIV are different.

[Realm]

They're Domain-era retrofits to boost the vessel per the desired tactics of the Fourteenth Battlegroup, if they were any more significant of a boost than they are then they'd likely be taking OP instead of giving you more OP. You're paying the premium for what on one hand is a collector's piece (at least until the player starts producing more), and otherwise an arguably quite better variant of an existing good ship.

In most cases though they shouldn't be damaging your performance compared to the stock vessels if you equip them well, and staff them with good Officers. The only case I can imagine a significant performance variance between XIV and stock is the Legion given the change of large slots (and that's the only case where I prefer stock over XIV).

[Warnoise]

The debuff doesn't only affect max speed, but manoeuvrability too!

Indeed if the whole loadout changed that would perhaps make them more interesting.

They're Domain-era retrofits to boost the vessel per the desired tactics of the Fourteenth Battlegroup, if they were any more significant of a boost than they are then they'd likely be taking OP instead of giving you more OP. You're paying the premium for what on one hand is a collector's piece (at least until the player starts producing more), and otherwise an arguably quite better variant of an existing good ship.

In most cases though they shouldn't be damaging your performance compared to the stock vessels if you equip them well, and staff them with good Officers. The only case I can imagine a significant performance variance between XIV and stock is the Legion given the change of large slots (and that's the only case where I prefer stock over XIV).

Any ship will become better with officer sand correct loadout. I just finished a playthrough using only xiv ships. I realized that no matter what officers you bring, or loadout you equip, they will bring 0 difference from their original counterpart (except the legion and maaaaybe the onslaught) but anything lower than a cruiser is a net loss.

I wouldn't call xiv ships as "collector pieces" because in a space battle game, a collector piece is expected to be a rare and unique ship (mechanically and performance-wise) the xiv, other than the legion, are just orange with a bad hullmod.

[Pushover]

XIV also comes with additional OP, which means it has a bit more flexibility in the outfitting. Yeah, losing speed on a ship reliant on speed sucks, but the tradeoff is that the ship has better shields (from flux stats and extra OP) and armor. Eagle and Falcon are kind of meh when it comes to it, I find the base hull (and XIV) mediocre ships in general now (for 1 less DP than a Falcon you can have a Fury, and Eagle is facing competition from Champion/Dominator, which while heavier, fill a role in a larger fleet better).

XIV Legion and Onslaught are excellent ships (oh no... I lost 4 top speed!). XIV Enforcer and Dominator are both fine for what they are, which are armored bricks that potentially lack the DPS to really threaten things.

[TaLaR]

Only XIV Falcon is worse than base version, because it's only advantage over Eagle is speed. Significantly reducing this advantage makes Falcon XIV meaningless.

But something like Onslaught is going to be the slowest ship in field anyway, XIV or not. Both zero flux bonus and Burn drive are constant bonuses, and most of Onslaught's total mobility comes from these.

[Realm]

Generally I treat XIV variants as intended for pitched battles where it'll be a long slugfest with little room for movement. That's where the little things like armour, flux and especially OP put them on top of their stock variants.

Only XIV Falcon is worse than base version, because it's only advantage over Eagle is speed. Significantly reducing this advantage makes Falcon XIV meaningless.

It's not really competing with the Eagle too much as-is given it has a lower deployment cost. It's more of a role change to suit what I said above, than being worse.

Any ship will become better with officer sand correct loadout. I just finished a playthrough using only xiv ships. I realized that no matter what officers you bring, or loadout you equip, they will bring 0 difference from their original counterpart (except the legion and maaaaybe the onslaught) but anything lower than a cruiser is a net loss.

I wouldn't call xiv ships as "collector pieces" because in a space battle game, a collector piece is expected to be a rare and unique ship (mechanically and performance-wise) the xiv, other than the legion, are just orange with a bad hullmod.

A small difference is the intent. It's a variant that gives generally a wide statistical advantage at a small price, all while doing no harm to the deployment and maintenance costs, under no circumstance is this a 'net loss' unless you're perhaps building for something ultra-aggressive and mobile like SO. If I could apply this 'bad hullmod' to every ship I would in a heartbeat just for the OP boost.

As for collector's pieces, the value is in them being somewhat (at least initially) more limited than the normal sort, as well as their historical significance in the game's world.

Spoiler

The XIV Legion is also no longer an exception, given the Historian can point to it's blueprint now.

[close]

[pairedeciseaux]

You guys are right, I always forget about the OP boost.

Falcons in my mostly endgame fleet:

Spoiler

[close]

XIV stats differences:

• 5 more OP, used here in Capacitors
• Top speed: -8%
• Armor: +13%
• Capacitors: +14%
• Vents: +5%

[Razor Feather]

I've generally been quite happy with my legion XIV ships, and I think they are worth going after with the aforementioned possible exception of the falcon, since that ship is more reliant on speed, and well, the pirate variant tends to be better anyway in my opinion.

The key is to just go all in on armor for them, and throw on heavy armor and possibly even armored weapon mounts as well, to try and crank it as high as possible. Since more armor means it has both more resistance, and that resistance lasts longer, it has a really strong positive self synergy.

They ultimately have a somewhat different role that shifts them a bit more from the hammer side of things to the anvil. You push the enemies in toward them and let them work from there. Its not a universal upgrade, but it doesn't need to be.

Also the special paint job is awesome, can't forget that.

[Daynen]

Gotta build 'em different.  The battlegroup clearly had a different fleet doctrine than some of us and played their ships to different strengths.  A little speed and maneuverability can be made up for with reasonably priced hullmods and skills but extra flux, ordnance points and armor are in limited supply.

[Thaago]

The XIV flux buffs also multiply the flux from vents/caps, not just base stats, so they are significantly better than they first appear. In general an XIV ship gets a decent chunk of armor, a very decent chunk of flux, and extra OP at the cost of a small amount of speed.

The only hull where I think the tradeoff is marginal is the Falcon, since that ship's whole point is kiting. For every other ship its a significant power increase that allows for more guns, more hullmods, and more damage mitigated at very low cost.

[GenericGoose]

I dont find them that rare. Ive seen quite a lot around Jangala. They definitely are extremely overpriced for the small stat changes they provide, which aren't even necessarily an upgrade. I do agree that losing speed is pretty bad though. Id say dominator is probably losing the least, as it's already slow and -2 speed is really nothing, while being takny is a major feature of the ship. It could be cool if the hullmod was slightly more interesting than stat changes, or if it was more drastic. -2 speed is nothing, 100 armor is 1-2 hits from a good cannon. Different ship system? Different weapon mounts? Yes, please.

[SafariJohn]

Onslaught XIV was badass in 0.9.1a - I can't wait to get my hands on one in 0.95a. With Heavy Armor, Hardened Shields, and Reinforced Bulkheads built in, plus +30 OP from Heavy Ballistics Integration, it will have 130 more OP than before.

[Warnoise]

What people didn't realize here is that the 7% debuff isn't only on speed but on manoeuvrability too! Literally the 2 most important stats in the game imo currently.

The enforcer, with SO, can barely reach 80 top speed!

7% extra capacitors and flux are extremely negligible in a fight.  Especially for anything smaller than a capital.

The extra 10 OP is the only thing that can be considered as decent, but still doesn't make it up for speed and manoeuvrability debuff for anything smaller than a dominator.

Also 100 armor is negligible too...I think it is an established fact now that shield and speed>>>>>>>armor in terms of survivability.

You slap heavy armor on an enforcer (the debuff from heavy armor stacks with the xiv hullmod debuff) and it will start turning like a dominator lol. Imagine a destroyer that is slow like dominator but has the firepower of an enforcer.

They have double the price, in the story they are considered the epitome of the hegemony engineering, yet in battle they offer nothing other than a shiny paintjob.

They clearly need an overhaul, whether it is a buff to the hullmod, different weapon loadout or different ship system.

I modded them out and have them (all xiv ships) a built in solar shield hullmod (considering they are anti AI fleet) and I gave built in ballistic integration to xiv dominator. Now at least I feel they are worth the hype.