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Author Topic: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?  (Read 7826 times)

BairStrokes

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Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« on: April 03, 2021, 03:24:48 AM »

So, I just got 27k ore from salvaging mining station with no salvage bonuses. That was amusing, but it also made me stop and gather my thoughts about salvage in new patch.

What was my plan regarding salvage in 0.9.1a? 3 salvage rigs + salvage skill netting me x2 bonus on all yields and turning Research stations into BP pinatas. That would be ridiculous in 0.95a with all the new rare items added, so I see and agree with exclusion of rare items from the bonus. But that left salvage ships in a weird spot.

Now salvage bonuses provide you with additional common yields and post-battle salvage. Common things already drop in unreasonable quantities (*cough* 27k ore *cough*) and 99% of them end up in a space lock immediately anyway, so only valuable things are heavy armaments, supplies and fuel. And I feel that supp/fuel drops were decreased substantially because only times when I see triple digits yields of those is finding occasional tanker derelict. Do I need to tell that those salvage rigs that you lug around consume supp and fuel, occupy fleet slots and have massive sensor profile? Over time they consume more supp/fuel then provide from bonus yields.

With post-battle salvage bonus situation is even worse: 9% from two rigs. And salvage skill exist and available literally at lvl 1. It gives you +50% salvage bonus (2 rigs), +20% post-battle salvage (whole salvage fleet) and -75% crew loss in non-combat situations. All this completely for free with no downsides and conditions. This skill is awesome.

Dragging around salvage gantry ships is not worth it in any situation.

I think easiest way to make them useful again would be just increasing post-battle salvage bonus. Maybe increasing fleet repair speed and cost discount on top.

Fenrir

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 05:29:40 AM »

I would say let's give the rig the ability to reduce ship recovery cost, whether post-combat or derelict (not possibility of recover since derelicts in fact don't have one and so) (in fact I don't really know it there is a cost and if rig already has, correct me if any for certain) , since it's designed for "repair and construction" originally
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IonDragonX

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2021, 06:27:42 AM »

I think that the diminishing returns of Salvage Gantry has basically made the Salvage Rig obsolete. Its just not worth paying for that ship during normal play.

It would be nice if there were story reasons to bring a Salvage Rig on a mission and doing so would get you superior results.
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Scorpixel

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2021, 12:39:18 PM »

Giving rigs a fleet-wide hp/armour recovery speed bonus could be useful in some situations, that or/and a larger variant for better bonuses, as right now there's no vanilla option.
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Dex

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2021, 12:49:45 PM »

Wait, salvage gantries affect special salvage?

edit: im dim. Never mind
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2021, 01:15:06 PM »

So, I just got 27k ore from salvaging mining station with no salvage bonuses. That was amusing, but it also made me stop and gather my thoughts about salvage in new patch.

...

I think easiest way to make them useful again would be just increasing post-battle salvage bonus. Maybe increasing fleet repair speed and cost discount on top.

I have also gotten 20K+ ore from salvaging a mining station (although I did have salvage bonus, dunno why you got more without bonus), and to say it was amusing is somewhat of an understatement.  Nor was I even using any sort of ship for some salvaging bonus (shepard, salvage rig).

But it does raise some clear issues with salvaging, and also how the game even bothers to count resources (1 at a time, even after 20K, takes like 5 minutes just to determine how much salvage exists now from those lucky mining stations).  Adding some script so the game counts faster (ie, by 1000 at a time once over like 3K or something) shouldn't be too difficult, but it definitely begs the question as to what utility a player now gains from adding a salvage rig to player fleet (shepards at least have some combat use, so less of an issue there).

Making the salvage rig reduce supply recovery cost from battle and/or increase fleet recovery speed are definitely excellent suggestions, but it also kind of raises further issues, mostly related to the arbitrary 30 ship fleet cap, and how it relates to all ships in any given fleet and not just combat ships.  Since this game is prolly not going the direction of adding/changing/requiring support ships to normally be also deployed in battle due to additional time/game changes (which would be dope, gives an entire reason to bother to defend your side of the arbitrary space combat chessboard), a more reasonable suggestion would be to allow any given fleet to get one free non-combat/support ship for every five ships in any given fleet (therefore total of five or six additional support ships for a 30 ship fleet, depending on whether you count first additional ship if less than five ships or starting after five ships).  Whether a player would still want more additional support ships to take up a slot that a combat ship could otherwise use would be up to the player (ie, like a shepard), but the freely additional support ships wouldn't normally be deployable in any given battle (ie, only shows up when trying to run away).  Such a solution frees up slots for bashing more ships together in battle while allowing a player to also still have some tankers and freighters, maybe a mule or a civilian transport, plus whatever other support ships the player desires (adding some more support ships couldn't hurt, although dunno what additional bonuses haven't already been added).

In any case, something gotta be done about salvage rig...
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Megas

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2021, 01:16:03 PM »

Maybe have one to speed up d-mod removal for those with Field Repairs.
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Daynen

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2021, 12:34:40 PM »

The idea of salvage rigs aiding in ship recovery is an interesting one.  You'd be sacrificing a slot in your fleet for a better chance at recovering from losses, which is...not an altogether terrible trade and comes with what feels like a meaningful opportunity cost.

27k ore though...that's hilarious on so many levels...
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Chaos Blade

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2021, 01:00:12 PM »

Plus the gantries and tugs having some in game effects on the players would be rather interesting. HP recovery, casualty mitigation, reduced Salvage cost for ships and maybe the possibility of turning hard to salvage ships into regular salvage.
At least off the top of my head, those are the things that the gantries should affect

Plus I love the idea of tail elements for the fleets... so maybe reduced supply usage (can run regular maintenance on the bigger ships) maybe somethinh for navigation as well
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2021, 04:02:58 PM »

Maybe have one to speed up d-mod removal for those with Field Repairs.

That might be a little OP if a salvage rig increases salvage/loot AND does what you suggested, but still better than current regime.  Maybe better to allow for MUCH slower D-mod removal even without Field Repairs (still cheaper than paying for removal in shipyard), and faster for those with Field Repairs.

The idea of salvage rigs aiding in ship recovery is an interesting one.  You'd be sacrificing a slot in your fleet for a better chance at recovering from losses, which is...not an altogether terrible trade and comes with what feels like a meaningful opportunity cost.

27k ore though...that's hilarious on so many levels...

This idea I like, especially if this added ability sometimes allows some ship recovery in lieu of using a story point balanced against using a fleet slot (plus all the other negatives caused by lugging around a salvage rig).

And yeah, when a mining station drops 22k ore for the first time, giggling during the 5 minutes it take to figure out whether its 12k or 25k ore is only the minimum requirement...
« Last Edit: April 04, 2021, 04:06:26 PM by slowpersun »
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cesarmalari

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2021, 05:18:51 PM »

But it does raise some clear issues with salvaging, and also how the game even bothers to count resources (1 at a time, even after 20K, takes like 5 minutes just to determine how much salvage exists now from those lucky mining stations).

Just click anywhere - the full count and all the items appear as soon as you just click somewhere on the screen.
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randomone

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2021, 07:25:55 PM »

I don't know how feasible it would be to code, but one interesting ability salvage rigs could have would be to rig itself around some type of otherwise immovable structure, like a buoy, and take it with the rest of the fleet. That way you could relocate something like a domain buoy to your system, or shuffle some sort of defense platforms around to protect your fledging colony or something. Heck, incorporate it into the new mission system and fulfill a pirate's bar request to drag an entire capital REDACTED hulk back to the core worlds for totally legitimate reasons
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IonDragonX

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Re: Salvage and salvage gantry in 0.95a?
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2021, 07:46:19 PM »

Spoiler
I don't know how feasible it would be to code, but one interesting ability salvage rigs could have would be to rig itself around some type of otherwise immovable structure, like a buoy, and take it with the rest of the fleet. That way you could relocate something like a domain buoy to your system, or shuffle some sort of defense platforms around to protect your fledging colony or something. Heck, incorporate it into the new mission system and fulfill a pirate's bar request to drag an entire capital REDACTED hulk back to the core worlds for totally legitimate reasons
[close]
Nice! I'd be happy with that!
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