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[intrinsic_parity]

@thaago What do you give up to get those leaderships skills?

I have trouble imagining a world where I don't want full tech, with ECM, dissipation+capacity bonus and especially if I am focusing on capitals where the 3 built in hull mods get max value, and small ships where the +10 vents/caps get max value (plus the +1 burn and extra range/energy weapon damage are also great). Giving up combat just kills my fun personally piloting, although it might be optimal. I guess I would drop industry skills (can't anymore in this campaign because I have 6 colonies already LOL), but I would hate losing the supply upkeep reduction and bonus CR/ppt on flagship. I guess those matter less in late game too.

[trucane]

What is the point of the ability to reset your skills when both the technology tree and the Leadership tree has permanent skills pretty far into the tree? If you level both trees you are more or less unable to make use of the reset function.

There must be a better way to do so you aren't screwed like that

[Thaago]

@intrinsic_parity
I dropped industry completely. I realized that while it was in theory saving me money, it was dropping my combat power enough that I needed to bring a bigger fleet to deal with top bounties, which further lowered individual combat power, which made my non-officered ships not be able to compete, which made fights drag on, which made my destroyers start to run out of PPT in battles, which made my ECM rating go down as I switched to larger ships, which lowered my combat power... Just a whole cascade of malus's that added up to big problems. When I switched my skills around a hard bounty that caused losses and PPT issues suddenly became a standard fairly quick battle.

The extra damage and CR to all ships is not a huge boost, but it stacks on the top for my officered ships and critically helps my non-officered ships fight enemy officers at least somewhat. I've started actively shifting hullmods for more ECM and Nav, dropped all my Falcons completely (RIP XIV Falcons, you don't offer fleetwide bonuses like destroyers do, and just don't have enough BOOM. I think falcons would be awesome frontliners for a Heron bomber fleet, but not my current composition) and put a trio of officers with gunnery implants onto Hammerheads for the nav. I dropped armor from my own skills for more offense.

I actually don't have the triple built in skill for tech yet (only level 11), and I'm starting to run a bit low on story points... I have something like 10 story points sunk into ships that I'm just not using anymore because they don't fit my fleet doctrine (though I'm going to bring my Gryphons back, and just not put officers on them). Still, its such a huge boost that its my next stop.

[intrinsic_parity]

@thaago That makes sense. I already committed to industry for extra colonies but I'll have to think about forgoing it on the next run. I picked up industry at one point because I was really falling behind in the logistics department. I think maybe in the future, I might take industry early and try to blitz out exploration in the early game before dropping it. After this play through, I really feel like I need to see my exploration goodies before making decisions about colonies, so I was already incentivized to do that early.

[Thaago]

Industry did save me a ton of money and get me 2/3 of my current (nearly pristine) fleet, and when I was exploring the combination of +salvage, -maintenance, and half cost surveys made those missions a lot more profitable/easy. Its just not quite good enough for endgame combat, at least not without using (abusing?) the D mod damage reduction skill.

I'm not even sure its a bad thing: respeccing is built into the design, so good early game bad late game is only a single story point cost, and I would be respeccing on flagship change half the time anyways. But those permanent skills are really scary, I've stayed away from them so far because I don't have a solid understanding of the skills yet.

[Megas]

I'm not even sure its a bad thing: respeccing is built into the design, so good early game bad late game is only a single story point cost, and I would be respeccing on flagship change half the time anyways. But those permanent skills are really scary, I've stayed away from them so far because I don't have a solid understanding of the skills yet.

This is a reason I plan to take Automated Ships instead of Special Modifications because I want to go nuts playing with AI ships (even if I cannot pilot it myself) and I can respec it away after the novelty wears off.  I cannot respec Special Modifications away after I get it.

Right now, even if I want Spec. Mod, I cannot make full use of it without enough story points, and I doubt my game will last long enough.

[Sordid]

What is the point of the ability to reset your skills when both the technology tree and the Leadership tree has permanent skills pretty far into the tree? If you level both trees you are more or less unable to make use of the reset function.

There must be a better way to do so you aren't screwed like that

Yeah, that is really inelegant design IMO.

I get why those skills are permanent; if they weren't, you could take the skill, upgrade some ships/officers, then respec the skill point, effectively gaining those upgrades for free (or for the cost of a story point, which are a renewable resource). The obvious solution to this problem would be to, y'know, not let you keep those benefits. For instance, over-trained officers could lose their respect for you and simply leave you to strike out on their own the next time you visit a colony. Or they could mutiny, taking their ship and trying to run away from your fleet. Over-upgraded ships could become unable to regain CR because nobody knows how they work, dooming them to a slow death. The game should obviously not warn you about these consequences ahead of time, they should come as a surprise if/when you attempt the exploit.

[Megas]

Last release, you could find officers out in space and have more than the limit, but those extra officers over the limit were red-out and you could not use them.  Why not do the same here?  You unlearn the skill, and ninth and tenth officers become red and unavailable until you fire some.

[intrinsic_parity]

The issue is that you can give officers extra levels with the one skill, then spec out and still have the officers with extra levels. The one that give extra officers isn't a problem.

[sector_terror]

Last release, you could find officers out in space and have more than the limit, but those extra officers over the limit were red-out and you could not use them.  Why not do the same here?  You unlearn the skill, and ninth and tenth officers become red and unavailable until you fire some.

That's.....a very good question

[Sarissofoi]

Skills aside, the whole skill system is terrible.
The more I play the game more I dislike it.
Is this right place to complain about it?>
And is there any point doing it?
I don't think so that Alex even look here.

[Serenitis]

The more I play the game more I dislike it.

Same.
It's a good system in theory.
But in practice, gating something you want behind either things you don't or things that would actively impede you is not great.
There's also the issue that some skills completely invalidate others which makes it impossible to progress beyond that 'level' if you don't want to lose an ability.

The fleet composition skill limits are maybe a bit too restrictive.
Some of the skill 'pairs' could possibly do with being split up so there's a potential path through for every playstyle.
And some of the abilities might be better as being optional elites rather than baked in so there's no potential 'dead ends'.

The entire system feels to me like there a constant undercurrent of "play the game this way. no, not like that, like this. no, only like this. no you're not doing it right, you're not getting the thing until you do it right."

[GenericGoose]

The new system is hit and miss. I like what it was going for, but skills need a lot of work. Tech tree is really good, combat is decent, industry has some interesting choices, while leadership remains my least favorite, as before the update. The fleet size limits are really bad. They need to be removed, calculated differently or increased by a lot. I really like elite skills idea, but I want more elite upgrades. Right now they also feel 'free', I don't see why wouldn't you afford 1 story point per level to upgrade a skill, you get 4. Maybe they should cost more points, have other prerequisites, like completing missions or having a specific contact, but that may be tedious.
Final note is that I would personally like if the weaker skills improved, as opposed to stronger skills getting nerfed.

[Serenitis]

The leadership line has all the useful skills (for me) gated behind 2 levels of things that do really do anything for me or are so trivial it's not worth a skill point.
This could be improved by shuffling some of the skill pairs around so there is a path through to the later choices that isn't seen as a 'waste' by a player who isn't looking to do that one thing the game is now trying to encourage you to do.
This tbf is more of a 'me' issue, as I look at the lineup and ask myself "do I want to spend 2 points to be able to even consider getting what I want?"
And the answer is likely going to be no.

The industry line is the most egregious.
It is currently absolutely impossible for a player to get maximum colony skills and play with a junk fleet. Because one of the abilities from field repair totally invalidates the entire derelict contingent skill, and you can't get all the end skills without taking both.
This could be improved by making that one specific ability either an elite skill, or a toggleable ability.

I get smaller fleets and smaller ships are the 'intended' thing now, but closing off options isn't the right way to go about it.
And the fleet size limits for some of the skills could stand to be inflated a little.
Not everyone wants to follow whatever the new 'meta' is, and it's poor form to try and enforce it. Especially in a game that's about seeking fortune and glory however you choose.

The skill system itself isn't necessarily the issue. It's just some specific elements within that system, and how they are arranged in such a way as to try and force the player down a particular path that's proving to be a bit prickly.

[SonnaBanana]

I'd prefer it if Leadership skills (especially for Weapon Drills and Elite Crew) counted crew and not DP.