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Author Topic: Carriers debuff  (Read 965 times)

SonnaBanana

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Carriers debuff
« on: March 01, 2021, 08:14:39 PM »

Reduce fighter replacement speed by 25% if moving.
Another 25% reduction if over 30% flux.
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Chairman Suryasari

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2021, 10:55:39 AM »

In my opinion, Carrier only becomes overpower if you increase the battle size to ridiculous number and spam them for days.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2021, 10:54:37 AM »

Both of these mostly hurt battle carriers, which are already worse than pure carriers.
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Serenitis

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 02:17:51 AM »

A simpler way of 'debuffing' carriers is to remove the expanded deck crew mod from the game.
It's basically a carrier tax anyway.
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Megas

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2021, 06:14:42 AM »

A simpler way of 'debuffing' carriers is to remove the expanded deck crew mod from the game.
It's basically a carrier tax anyway.
A tax that makes it very hard to impossible for dedicated carriers to properly support guns like in pre-0.8a releases.  Better for carriers to maximize their strengths (making fighters overpowered, while maybe being unarmed in the process) than using Talons or pods and having firepower equivalent to a warship of the next size or two down.

Legion is in a tricky spot.  It has less bays than Astral, so it needs to use guns competently as well to have a use beyond being an inferior Astral.  (Odyssey is an extra-large Shrike that inherited bays from the early days when fighters were ships and Odyssey was less mobile.)

If the weakened Expanded Deck Crew still costs the same OP, it might still be a big tax.  If it is so weak as to be worthless, better to remove it from the game.  Otherwise, it might still be better to get it to eeek out maximum performance even if the bonuses will be 40% of what we get now.  (I hope OP cost is 40% of what it is now.)  Expanded Deck Crew is of moderate cost, not costly enough to perma-mod over more expensive mods like Heavy Armor, Hardened Shields, or Augmented Drive Field.
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Embolism

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2021, 07:10:02 AM »

I'm in favour of removing Expanded Deck Crew (and also Recovery Shuttles) altogether. It doesn't promote any kind of different playstyle and is actively unfun by being an OP tax.
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Retry

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2021, 05:11:21 PM »

I usually use EDC on carriers, but honestly I can get away with skipping EDC on Battlecarriers (Legion) or combat-ships-that-happen-to-have-token-fighter-bays (Odyssey).  Not quite an OP tax even in its current state, no more so than, say, ITU on the vast majority of proper combat ships.

I'm not sure why you're bringing in Recovery Shuttles into this.  Not only is it not an OP tax, its minimal campaign-level benefits are currently not remotely worth its OP cost.
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Megas

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2021, 05:33:48 PM »

I use Deck Crew and ITU on Legion.  If I do not make fighters good on Legion, then I might as well pass on the ship and grab an Onslaught instead (for more guns and flux).  If I use Legion, then I want to be good at both guns and fighters, which it can do.  Likewise, if I cannot afford guns on Legion, then pass and grab an Astral instead.

Legion14, I use at times because it is the only ship that is built to use Hammer Barrage or Cyclone Reapers properly.  None of the other ships with large missile mounts are suitable platforms for Hammer Barrage, not even Gryphon.  As such, I consider Legion14 a torpedo boat (because flinging Hammers is the only reason I why bother using Legion14 in the first place).

Odyssey that focuses on guns does not need fighters.  It is too busy zipping around the map and blasting enemies like a pure warship.  I pick pods, Xyphos, Longbows, and/or Daggers for fighters, and keep them close to the ship like Gradius options.  I do not bother with Deck Crew.  It needs all the OP it can get to support guns, and with its limited budget, I often leave more than half of the mounts empty, one of which is the large synergy.

Recovery Shuttles... Crew are expendable, but OP is not, and ships are OP starved to an extent.  Enough said.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 05:35:22 PM by Megas »
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Embolism

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Re: Carriers debuff
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2021, 07:58:08 PM »

I brought in Recovery Shuttles because it's another carrier-centric hullmod that shouldn't exist. I didn't mean it was also an OP tax, but since it's so useless if it doesn't get brought up it might slip through the cracks if Alex does decide to remove Expanded Deck Crew.
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