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[intrinsic_parity]

150 range at 50 speed difference is 3 seconds. 3 seconds at 320 dps is 1920 shield damage. The 2x DMLG will make that up sure but it will be 13 seconds after the single HMG makes contact.

This is a SO eagle which means +20 base speed, zero flux boost on at all times for an additional +50 speed and if you wisely use maneuvering jets on approach for an additional +50 speed, you're looking at 170 speed before skills.

[FooF]

50 speed? The Eagle I'm playing (with SO is) traveling 120, 166 with maneuvering jets. It's not really about closing the distance, it's more about staying within range once you're there and that's where the extra 150 range comes into play less often. I'm trying to stay almost on top of the target. A little gap isn't bad but I'm pretty much hull-to-hull when I can be.

I tried Goumingdong's 2x ACG, 1HMG, 3x Phase Lance, 2x Ion and an AM Blaster.  I was hyper-aggressive and unloaded AM Blaster shots as soon as shields dropped. Skills and whatnot were identical. For all the theorycrafting we're doing, the results are almost imperceptible. Shields vs. no shields, range vs. less range, kin damage vs more HE, etc.

Time-to-kill Speed

Goumingdong's Setup (vs. Sim Dominator):
17.43 seconds from first hits on Eagle's shield
16.78
18.21
(17.47 avg)

My original setup:
15.89
14.67
16.25
(15.6 avg) - ~12% increase

Goumingdong's Setup (vs. Sim Aurora):
13.64
13.89
12.19
(13.24 avg)

My original setup:
12.62
11.86
13.29
(12.59 avg) - ~5% increase

I thought that the Aurora's superior shields might be where the extra kinetic damage on my setup would pay dividends but the results were basically insignificant. If anything, I would have bet money Goumingdong's setup would kill the Dominator faster but I believe the 2x AM Blaster was the difference maker. So, from what I can tell, we're splitting hairs and whatever your cup o' tea is, I don't think you can go wrong.

As far as the AI goes, it doesn't like my build. All I had were steady officers and they were way too meek. I need to get an aggressive/reckless officer in there and see how they do.

[Thaago]

I'd say Reckless of burst for an SO cruiser tbh. I had good success using a reckless officered SO destroyer as a wingman: set them to escort me at the start of the battle, create opportunity/guide them to the proper flank, then let them off the leash!

[FooF]

Back to the OP:

Anyone else have some unorthodox loadouts that are food for thought?

[SCC]

Not much to think about, but here are two loadouts for two ships that can kill a Preceptor (and all the star fortresses, but not with these specific loadouts) on their lonesome, assuming you've got some combat skills.

Spoiler

[close]

[Igncom1]

I'll assume these are player piloted, as the Enlightenment-Class has some weird issues with the AI using it's large mounts I tend to find.

One hell of a shield taker though, I just game them a plasma cannon on each side to kill anything lesser then a capital, and then left them to infinitely tank Radiant-Class battleships for the ORA supercarrier.

[intrinsic_parity]

My AI paragon load out looks kind of similar. 2 plasma cannons in the large turrets, 2 heavy needlers in the universals, some light PD and I leave everything else empty (including the large hard points) and then grab all the defensive hullmods I want with plenty of OP left over for max dissipation and a ton of capacity. It works wonders for the AI because its much closer to flux parity than most loadouts with 4 large weapons and it can generally play super aggressively even in AI hands.

[FooF]

My AI paragon load out looks kind of similar. 2 plasma cannons in the large turrets, 2 heavy needlers in the universals, some light PD and I leave everything else empty (including the large hard points) and then grab all the defensive hullmods I want with plenty of OP left over for max dissipation and a ton of capacity. It works wonders for the AI because its much closer to flux parity than most loadouts with 4 large weapons and it can generally play super aggressively even in AI hands.

Honestly, that seems to be the hidden "trick" to a lot of ships: leave a ton of mounts empty and pile on the hull mods. It's not like many things can survive 2x Plasma Cannon for long anyways so dog piling more weapons past that can do more harm than good. All the mounts being empty feels so wrong, though...!

The All-Beam Paragon is kind of in the same boat, but in the opposite way: everything is filled but because it just lazily kills everything at like 2000 range, it too feels like a cop-out of some kind.

[intrinsic_parity]

In my a experience, a huge part of making loadouts for the AI is making them so that they can be brainlessly fired continuously which ensures that the AI will never suicide by its own weapons. Both loadouts with empty slots and beam flux-lite loadouts like beam spam are very good for this. Kinetics are also great for continuous fire.

I know there are some potential improvements to AI flux management in the near future that might make me reevaluate that, but right now, I find that there's just no reason to give the AI the option of fluxing itself out firing weapons because it will invariably do it at the wrong moment and die. Assuming the battle is close to even, if the friendly AI can't make any mistakes, then the only thing that can happen is the enemy AI making mistakes.

[Goumindong]

150 range at 50 speed difference is 3 seconds. 3 seconds at 320 dps is 1920 shield damage. The 2x DMLG will make that up sure but it will be 13 seconds after the single HMG makes contact.

This is a SO eagle which means +20 base speed, zero flux boost on at all times for an additional +50 speed and if you wisely use maneuvering jets on approach for an additional +50 speed, you're looking at 170 speed before skills.

50 speed difference. A retreating eagle will be at -70 speed but a retreating falcon will be about 50. Less if they’re unstable

[intrinsic_parity]

150 range at 50 speed difference is 3 seconds. 3 seconds at 320 dps is 1920 shield damage. The 2x DMLG will make that up sure but it will be 13 seconds after the single HMG makes contact.

This is a SO eagle which means +20 base speed, zero flux boost on at all times for an additional +50 speed and if you wisely use maneuvering jets on approach for an additional +50 speed, you're looking at 170 speed before skills.

50 speed difference. A retreating eagle will be at -70 speed but a retreating falcon will be about 50. Less if they’re unstable

When does that happen though? The AI doesn't run away before you've even gotten into range (except maybe carriers) and will pretty commonly be actively trying to approach you or paying attention to something else. As long as you're fast enough to maintain range, you really don't have to worry about this scenario.

[Goumindong]

All the time? I cannot recall an AI that attempted to close with me despite me being well in the range of all their guns.

[intrinsic_parity]

All the time? I cannot recall an AI that attempted to close with me despite me being well in the range of all their guns.

The AI backs away from you at max speed as soon as you try to approach it?

In my experience, it sometime tries to maintain range by backing up if you're already close to it, but it always tries to close range initially (assuming its not already high on flux) and it usually 'overshoots' on the initial approach because of acceleration meaning you usually end up a lot closer to it than its weapon range, and if you're using maneuvering jets properly, you're definitely not spending 3+ seconds trying to get into weapons range.

You can even abuse the AI behavior by initially backing up to bait it into chasing you (and using mobility systems) and then changing to move forward to close the distance before it changes to maintaining range.

The point being, if you are piloting well, you shouldn't really be in a situation where you can't quickly close the distance unless the enemy ship is significantly faster than your base speed (120) in which case you just can't really fight them effectively.

[Goumindong]

The AI backs away from you at max speed as soon as you try to approach it?

No. As soon as i am within its gun range. If you know of any non-SO cruisers that have an as fit range of non-pd weapons under 450 then they might continue to advance but as far as i am aware none exist.

[Megas]

Honestly, that seems to be the hidden "trick" to a lot of ships: leave a ton of mounts empty and pile on the hull mods. It's not like many things can survive 2x Plasma Cannon for long anyways so dog piling more weapons past that can do more harm than good. All the mounts being empty feels so wrong, though...!

It does.  This is one thing that bugs me about Starsector lately.  Unarmed carriers are the worst offenders, but not the only offenders.  Ships have all of these mounts, but neither the dissipation nor the OP to use them well.  Mounts are meant to be filled, not sacked for "bonus OP."  Too bad the game encourages sacking mounts.