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Poll

The strongest ship in full battle

Paragon
Astral
Atlas Mk.II
Conquest
Legion XIV
Odyssey
Onslaught XIV
Prometheus Mk.II
Potato bag
kite

Author Topic: the strongest ship poll  (Read 2133 times)

F.B.I

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the strongest ship poll
« on: March 25, 2020, 06:25:45 AM »

https://www.fbi.gov/

Which of these ships will most likely increase your chances of winning
Without mods!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:07:57 AM by F.B.I »
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2020, 07:51:44 AM »

Potato bag?

Where the hell is Onslaught IIV and Legion IIV? Doom?

Besides, this poll is not correct from the very beginning. What do you mean "strongest"? Is that mean 1 to 1 dueling? Then it's a Paragon (objectively), poll is not required. If it is efficiency per DP point - that would probably be a Legion IIV (IMO, off course). If it is combined battle efficient in fleet-to-fleet battle, well... MOST OF THEM can be best against certain enemy in certain player's fleet.

Or it's was conceived as another "You are wrong" thread?
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SCC

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2020, 09:28:05 AM »

The player ship, obviously.

Igncom1

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 09:40:56 AM »

The Sunder. Anything else is just fodder.
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Grievous69

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 09:44:38 AM »

Obviously it's the Phaeton since you can explore everything in it without the need of other ships. Also why did you remove Kite form the poll :(

But if we're being serious, SO Hammerhead is the strongest bang for buck ship, while Paragon is the strongest overall (but I think both are pretty obvious).
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Wyvern

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 09:46:38 AM »

While the Onslaught XIV (Note that's XIV, i.e. 14 in roman numerals, not IIV) is an upgrade over the regular Onslaught, the Legion XIV is a sidegrade - better in some contexts, but a downgrade if you need sustained firepower.  If you're going to have the Legion XIV on the list, you should also have the regular Legion.
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billi999

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2020, 10:02:13 AM »

Probably a bit of an unpopular opinion but having not used a paragon in any recent version, I voted Conquest.
There is a very specific configuration which I have found seems to be capable of popping disgustingly large numbers of enemy ships on its own, and is well capable of holding two Onslaughts at bay when piloted with some skill (that's officered, real-world Onslaughts, not what-if sub-optimal simulator Onslaughts). The only drawbacks are range and that it has to relegate one side to PD.
So what are the main aspects that lead the build to success? Pressure and higher rate of fire weapons - this makes the conquest more independent and capable of standing alone against fighters and missile swarms, although Advanced Countermeasures 3 does help. Speaking of which, essential skills would be the typical gunnery implants, ordnance expertise, target analysis and missile specialization, though AC3 as mentioned before and helmsmanship do both help. You must use an aggressive officer unless piloting yourself as otherwise the ship will either cower and waste all of its missiles at too long range to fire anything else, or get itself popped by flying right into a deathball (with a reckless officer).

Weapons, face-wrecking side:
  • Storm needler in the front large ballistic
  • Devastator in the other one
  • Heavy mortars in the mediums
This keeps the range of the weapons more or less equal and means the pilot won't hover outside of a range where they can use all of their weapons effectively.

Weapons, PD side:
  • Mixture or exclusively Devastators or flaks, your choice
  • Vulcans in the mediums

Weapons, the rest:
  • PD lasers
  • Ion beams - some much-needed long range support, but also good for pressuring and warding off unshielded frigates that try to get around your far side or rear
  • Locusts - because obviously... Eats fighters for breakfast and is great for backing up the heavy mortars
  • Sabot pods - a bit of a punch to back up the storm needler or use as a panic button in case of lesser mistakes

Hullmods etc.:
  • Hardened Shields
  • ITU
  • ECCM
  • Expanded missile racks, so the locusts last effectively forever and the sabot pods last longer
  • Put the rest into vents

If you want to run it with Efficiency Overhaul or don't have Loadout Design 3 you can yeet the sabots pods for pilums and/or drop devastators to flaks. Obviously the latter is not ideal because you're losing the OP efficiency of not using HBI).
Damn near anything that approaches close enough to get hit by the heavy mortars will get flux locked in short order. The high flux dissipation and ion beams at that point often mean you can remain flux stable while turning the target steadily into dust. Fighter swarms coming your way? Doesn't matter! The locusts will take care of entire swarms on the way to the actual target, and anything that gets through has to brave the rest of the face-wrecking side.

It may not have the mobility of an Oddysey but I find you usually need to make some kind of sacrifice, and for me that ends up in underwhelming DPS even on locked down targets because I refuse to sacrifice anti-fighter capability by leaving the small energies empty. Odyssey definitely has an edge with the fighters though.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 11:12:55 AM »

(Note that's XIV, i.e. 14 in roman numerals, not IIV)
Fell myself like that.
[close]

Conquest... Well it's a damn good damager. Having one in your fleet, especially piloted, significantly increase amount of things you are able to punch. It's problem - defenseless. No matter how good you are, once you catch something like a tach lance in your rear - it's crippled, sometimes even sitting duck. Conquest's armor isn't that bad, but shields... sometimes I think it better not have one. They dies too often, I wont vote conquest.

Still, probably better than paragon. Not 1-to-1 duel, paragon will win that. I am talking about equal DP situation: Two paragons vs three conquests (120 DP each IIRC). Conquests 146.5% win. Actually, paragons will loose that kind of battle against almost everyone, but  doom.
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F.B.I

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2020, 11:38:13 AM »

I don't think so 1 paragon can take out 2 conquests with long range weapons
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2020, 11:53:52 AM »

That is probably player piloted well-fitted paragon and two AI-controlled random-fitted conquests. I will tell you more: player-piloted paragon able to fight 6(probably more) AI-conquests at a same time and win.

If those two conquests were well-equipped and player-piloted, there would be no chances for paragon, it will be just outflanked.

That is sadly, as I am paragon pilot. But true.  :-\
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 12:39:13 PM »

Paragon does not lose 2v3 against conquests. I just tested in the sim (using a mini mod that lets me add my own variants so I can get multiple enemy conquests), and 2 properly outfitted AI paragons with no officers or extra OP from skills can kill 3 conquests or 3 onslaughts without too much trouble (not losing a paragon the few times I tested it). AI paragon can also 1v2 onslaughts, but not conquests because it gets kited a bit too easily. If it knew how to handle the squalls properly and time the TL bursts, it still might win in a 1v2 against conquests. For player ships, player piloted odyssey is probably the best for general fleet situations, but not capital duels IMO.
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Abraxas

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2020, 12:42:58 PM »

Guardian *cough*
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TaLaR

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 01:01:22 PM »

What's the actual question? Strongest AI ship? Strongest player ship? Strongest per DP or simply per ship? These have different answers.
Well, unless you allow Guardian, which is actually the best ship in every sense of the word or Radiant which closely follows in 2nd place.

Paragon is the strongest AI ship available to player (at 60 DP anything less would be a disgrace), but it loses AI vs AI vs single fully optimized anti-Paragon Conquest (2xSqualls, 2xGauss, 2xfinisher Harpoons, rest into hullmods and vent/cap). And loses pretty much no matter what build Paragon uses. 2x separately set Squalls shut down fortress shield with nonstop stream.
It's extremely boring as a player ship.

Conquest is good as player ship and decent for AI. Special build mentioned above is actually useless in fleet combat, and is only a sim curiosity.

Odyssey is tied with Conquest for best player ship. Useless as AI ship, at least after few first minutes of combat once it's out of missiles.

Onslaught trades armor and ammo for killing enemies. Player has better things to do (Conquest/Odyssey fight in much more sustainable ways), AI won't trade efficiently and can only be used against obviously vulnerable opponents (well, at least Onslaught has raw strength to make this category fairly broad).

Legion is imo best used as direct combat ship + cheap fighters. It doesn't have fighter boosting system, 4 wings are too few for a cap and you can't make officer with all combat + carrier skills. Usable, but worse than pretty much any other way to allocate same DP between direct combat ships and carriers (as long as you use good examples of both).

Astral is the bomber carrier, nuff said.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 01:03:55 PM by TaLaR »
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Megas

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Re: the strongest ship poll
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 04:30:40 PM »

I would not call Paragon since 0.8 boring.  I think it is a fun ship to pilot, thanks to high firepower, good durability, and long-range (non-fighter) firepower.  0.7.x Paragon was boring when it did not have Advanced Targeting Core (and Dominator could outrange and kill it without taking damage), and Onslaught was the top god ship at the time.

Aside from that, I more or less agree with the capital ship analysis.

Odyssey is a royal pain, though.  Any weird loadout I may want for an Odyssey I would pilot, AI will kill itself trying to use, and I do not want to pilot an Odyssey with an AI-safe loadout.  That will not do when I may switch flagships at will, and need AI to take over my usual flagship while I pilot something else.
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