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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.6)  (Read 1012042 times)

JenkoRun

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2955 on: September 02, 2023, 07:14:23 AM »

Just had a thought, what do you think of decreasing the ground defense penalty for Domes if the planet has a Planetary Shield on it? I tend to pick Volcanic worlds for AoTD Benification and extreme heat for Cryo engine, often making the domes needed to counter common hazards, if the planet has the shield wouldn't it make some sense for the penalty to be reduced?
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2956 on: September 02, 2023, 01:19:28 PM »

Possible bug: Fullerene Spool cannot be installed on ports with extreme techonomic activity despite the Harmonic Dampener neutralizing the effect.

EDIT: Catalytic Core is also effect by this, making it impossible to upgrade VoK Crystallizator.

Fullerene spool being blocked on planets with extreme tectonic activity is vanilla behavior. I'm not going to attempt to modify it, and I'm not going to have harmonic damper remove tectonic activity instead of suppressing it. I like to think of it as being too risky to install a fullerene spool on a planet where the harmonic damper could be disabled due to hostile activity or human error.

Just had a thought, what do you think of decreasing the ground defense penalty for Domes if the planet has a Planetary Shield on it? I tend to pick Volcanic worlds for AoTD Benification and extreme heat for Cryo engine, often making the domes needed to counter common hazards, if the planet has the shield wouldn't it make some sense for the penalty to be reduced?

This has been suggested before, but I decided not to implement it. This is because I think allowing the player any way to circumvent the ground defense penalty from domed cities would be bad for gameplay.

If you really don't like that ground defense penalty, I added a settings toggle to disable it in a recent patch!
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OmegaInfinita

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2957 on: September 07, 2023, 05:20:46 PM »

Hey, just wanted to mention that there is a planet type I ran across that isn't supported by TASC (I tried placing an atmospheric processor and it gave me a message to reply here about it?)
Not sure which mod it's from-- I thought it might be from US and checked the assets but didn't see anything regarding it in either the graphical assets or the data files (it also hasn't had any new planet types added since it is technically outdated).
Didn't see anyone else mention this after searching the forum so I figured this might be recent. Attached a pic of the planet in question.
Frozen Desert World?
I have a ton of mods active but I did a quick lookthrough of any that might be relative to the issue and/or adds planet types (AOTD, IE, Nex, LS, HMI) but none mention this type so I'm not sure.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help make this easier for you! Love the mod!
(also note, it doesn't crash or anything and I otherwise don't have any issues with the planet, it's just giving me the message that it's not supported)
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2958 on: September 07, 2023, 07:15:42 PM »

Hey, just wanted to mention that there is a planet type I ran across that isn't supported by TASC (I tried placing an atmospheric processor and it gave me a message to reply here about it?)
Not sure which mod it's from-- I thought it might be from US and checked the assets but didn't see anything regarding it in either the graphical assets or the data files (it also hasn't had any new planet types added since it is technically outdated).
Didn't see anyone else mention this after searching the forum so I figured this might be recent. Attached a pic of the planet in question.
Frozen Desert World?
I have a ton of mods active but I did a quick lookthrough of any that might be relative to the issue and/or adds planet types (AOTD, IE, Nex, LS, HMI) but none mention this type so I'm not sure.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help make this easier for you! Love the mod!
(also note, it doesn't crash or anything and I otherwise don't have any issues with the planet, it's just giving me the message that it's not supported)

Hey, I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

The atmosphere processor tooltip should say something like "the planet type is:" followed by the ID of the planet type. Can you please screenshot the tooltip itself so I can see the ID and add support?

Thanks for reporting this!
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OmegaInfinita

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2959 on: September 07, 2023, 08:00:47 PM »

Hey, just wanted to mention that there is a planet type I ran across that isn't supported by TASC (I tried placing an atmospheric processor and it gave me a message to reply here about it?)
Not sure which mod it's from-- I thought it might be from US and checked the assets but didn't see anything regarding it in either the graphical assets or the data files (it also hasn't had any new planet types added since it is technically outdated).
Didn't see anyone else mention this after searching the forum so I figured this might be recent. Attached a pic of the planet in question.
Frozen Desert World?
I have a ton of mods active but I did a quick lookthrough of any that might be relative to the issue and/or adds planet types (AOTD, IE, Nex, LS, HMI) but none mention this type so I'm not sure.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help make this easier for you! Love the mod!
(also note, it doesn't crash or anything and I otherwise don't have any issues with the planet, it's just giving me the message that it's not supported)

Hey, I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

The atmosphere processor tooltip should say something like "the planet type is:" followed by the ID of the planet type. Can you please screenshot the tooltip itself so I can see the ID and add support?

Thanks for reporting this!


Got it! I have the screenshot right here:
Frozen Desert World
" nskr_ice_desert " is what it shows.
Much appreciated!
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Jimminy Crimbles

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2960 on: September 07, 2023, 10:30:32 PM »

to be clear, frozen deserts are from lost_sector.
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OmegaInfinita

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2961 on: September 07, 2023, 10:39:08 PM »

to be clear, frozen deserts are from lost_sector.


Ah, must've missed it when looking through. Thanks!
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2962 on: September 08, 2023, 06:52:47 AM »

to be clear, frozen deserts are from lost_sector.


Ah, must've missed it when looking through. Thanks!

Thanks, I'll add support for this planet type in the next patch!
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Lycaeon

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2963 on: September 13, 2023, 11:26:03 AM »

Is there a way to disable condition-based special items such as mantle bores and catalytic cores from being used on all stations? So far the only setting I've found allows the disabling of their use on non-TASC stations. As the item conditions were meant to restrict their use to otherwise non-viable planets, being allowed to use them on 100% hazard stations doesn't seem appropriate. So far this is the only issue I have with picking up this mod, as everything else is readily customizable.

Also, if you recolonize abandoned astropoli or siphon stations (Such as the ones in Mairaath and Yma) do they regain their original functionality (eg. the siphon station will now siphon volatiles from its gas giant)? I'm curious as to whether this will still work even if I have construction of astropoli and siphon stations disabled.

Lastly, I feel existing faction mining stations such as Nova Maxios, Tigra City, and the various pirate belt stations should count against the mining station limit. Not a major issue, but it'd be nice for consistency.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 12:38:30 PM by Lycaon »
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icheltso

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2964 on: September 13, 2023, 11:43:06 AM »

Hi guys,

Can anybody tell me if hydroponics has any downsides vs farming except the cost. It takes one less input and produces one more output. Seems OP as ***.
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Kadatherion

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2965 on: September 13, 2023, 02:58:26 PM »

Hi guys,

Can anybody tell me if hydroponics has any downsides vs farming except the cost. It takes one less input and produces one more output. Seems OP as ***.

It is OP. Which is probably why it's turned off by default in the settings.
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2966 on: September 13, 2023, 04:10:17 PM »

Hi guys,

Can anybody tell me if hydroponics has any downsides vs farming except the cost. It takes one less input and produces one more output. Seems OP as ***.

It is OP. Which is probably why it's turned off by default in the settings.

Yup, it's disabled because it's overpowered and contributes to trivializing decisions about what planets to colonize.

Is there a way to disable condition-based special items such as mantle bores and catalytic cores from being used on all stations? So far the only setting I've found allows the disabling of their use on non-TASC stations. As the item conditions were meant to restrict their use to otherwise non-viable planets, being allowed to use them on 100% hazard stations doesn't seem appropriate. So far this is the only issue I have with picking up this mod, as everything else is readily customizable.

What mod allows for disabling special items on non-TASC stations? I didn't provide this option for technical reasons but if someone else found a good solution perhaps I could implement it in TASC.

Also, if you recolonize abandoned astropoli or siphon stations (Such as the ones in Mairaath and Yma) do they regain their original functionality (eg. the siphon station will now siphon volatiles from its gas giant)? I'm curious as to whether this will still work even if I have construction of astropoli and siphon stations disabled.

Astropolis stations have no special conditions or resources. The Yma siphon station does have volatiles deposits if you recolonize it, and most of the other vanilla stations will also retain their deposits if recolonized. If you find one that doesn't, please let me know because it's a bug!

Lastly, I feel existing faction mining stations such as Nova Maxios, Tigra City, and the various pirate belt stations should count against the mining station limit. Not a major issue, but it'd be nice for consistency.

I'm not sure I could consider Nova Maxios and Tigra City to be mining stations. The only vanilla station I can think of that I would consider a mining station would be Derinkuyu Mining Station, and adding an exception for it would likely be more trouble than it's worth because it would break the existing system of "scrapping" any abandoned mining stations before building a new one.
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Lycaeon

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2967 on: September 13, 2023, 06:01:00 PM »

Appreciate the answers!  :)

What mod allows for disabling special items on non-TASC stations? I didn't provide this option for technical reasons but if someone else found a good solution perhaps I could implement it in TASC.

   # Applies Cramped Quarters (if enabled), applies hazard and accessibility modifiers, and
   # enables "no atmosphere" special items on all stations sector-wide.
   # If set to false, only stations created using Terraforming & Station Construction will have the above features applied to them.
   "boggledApplyStationSettingsToAllStationsInSector":true,

It's a boolean in the TASC's settings.json and LunaLib settings files. It'd be an improvement if it applied to TASC stations too, as it doesn't make much sense (from both a logic and gameplay perspective) for it to only apply to non-TASC stations. From what I've read earlier in the thread it would entail the removal of the hidden 'no atmosphere' condition described here:

By default, stations cannot slot the "no atmosphere" special items, but I fixed this by overwriting the no atmosphere condition, putting it on all stations, and having it hide and suppress itself on stations so visually the player won't see it. This will break compatibility with any other mod which overwrites no atmosphere, but to my knowledge there are none at this time that do so.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 06:38:51 PM by Lycaon »
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2968 on: September 14, 2023, 12:31:12 PM »

Appreciate the answers!  :)

What mod allows for disabling special items on non-TASC stations? I didn't provide this option for technical reasons but if someone else found a good solution perhaps I could implement it in TASC.

   # Applies Cramped Quarters (if enabled), applies hazard and accessibility modifiers, and
   # enables "no atmosphere" special items on all stations sector-wide.
   # If set to false, only stations created using Terraforming & Station Construction will have the above features applied to them.
   "boggledApplyStationSettingsToAllStationsInSector":true,

It's a boolean in the TASC's settings.json and LunaLib settings files. It'd be an improvement if it applied to TASC stations too, as it doesn't make much sense (from both a logic and gameplay perspective) for it to only apply to non-TASC stations. From what I've read earlier in the thread it would entail the removal of the hidden 'no atmosphere' condition described here:

By default, stations cannot slot the "no atmosphere" special items, but I fixed this by overwriting the no atmosphere condition, putting it on all stations, and having it hide and suppress itself on stations so visually the player won't see it. This will break compatibility with any other mod which overwrites no atmosphere, but to my knowledge there are none at this time that do so.

Sorry, it's actually a little more complicated than I made it seem in my previous post. I cannot change the underlying code that vanilla uses to determine whether a special item can be installed. What I can do is use the "hidden condition hack" to ensure those conditions are met or not met. However, for the plasma dynamo, it merely checks whether the market is a gas giant using the following code:

Code
(market.getPlanetEntity() != null && !market.getPlanetEntity().isGasGiant())
Since the PlanetEntity for stations is always null, I cannot prevent the plasma dynamo from being installable.

Also, for some items which check whether the market is habitable or what the temperature on the market is, using the "hidden condition hack" could cause bugs with other mods if they have features that check whether a certain condition is present.

Given that the feature would not work for the plasma dynamo, and that it could cause incompatibilities with other mods, I think it's best not to make changes to allow disabling special items on stations, especially since the player can simply not install them if they don't want to.
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Lycaeon

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2969 on: September 14, 2023, 04:39:59 PM »

Given that the feature would not work for the plasma dynamo, and that it could cause incompatibilities with other mods, I think it's best not to make changes to allow disabling special items on stations, especially since the player can simply not install them if they don't want to.

That makes sense; it’s tough to handle inconsistencies that are hard-baked into the game. Still, what you’ve accomplished with this mod is very impressive, and I don’t understand why station market construction/reclamation isn’t part of the base game. It seems like a natural extension given abandoned mining stations are sitting around all over the sector and our colonies can already build orbital star fortresses. From a gameplay perspective it’s an excellent means of making systems with only one or two planets more viable for colonization.

Like, if the damn pirates can build hidden station markets to harass us whenever they want will we sure as heck should be able to build our own.

Edit: Having the option remove the 'no atmosphere' condition alone might work. I have no issues with using plasma dynamos on siphon stations, as they're extensions of the gas giant they orbit. Mantle bores on the other hand are intended to drill deep into planets and seem out of place on mining stations.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 09:26:13 PM by Lycaeon »
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