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[Mondaymonkey]

only frustration.

Spoiler

[close]

However, probably that is a thing that will yeld less benefits, than efforts spent... So you probably right.

[Uhlang]

The question of "why do I have all this Clarketech?" can be easily solved with a dash of role-playing, anyway.
Quests to get the blueprints would be cool but they're not worth it when you can just say you're someone with ties to Mayasura/EUTC or just some nobody who hit the tech-mining jackpot right before the start of the game.

Also, good call on the stability penalties. They make the bonuses from Aquarius Protocol a lot more useful, which I assume was the intention.

[Chikanuk]

I agree with author on this topic. This is not some sort of challenge or achievement. This is pure RNG about main mod mechanics, which is bad idea in general. And some people will get it in first months, while some not even after 20 in game years.
It's not like you ask what those blueprints to be locked behind some sort of fleet size boss ship\station. No, just "surprise mechanics". No challenge, just a gamble.
More quests will be nice (I have a wet dream about space rangers lvl of quests in starsector), but not necessary.

[boggled]

"why do I have all this Clarketech?"

I would argue that the Kletka Simulator is the only colony building in this mod that would require new physics or extreme technological advancements. It's hard to justify needing a blueprint for some of the buildings when they could feasibly be constructed in real life right now if we had enough money, or they already exist in real life (ex. Aquarius Protocol).

More quests will be nice

Maybe I'll create a quest to unlock a Kletka Simulator blueprint, although both my existing quests already involve AIs so I don't want to be too repetitive.

[Chikanuk]

Maybe I'll create a quest to unlock a Kletka Simulator blueprint, although both my existing quests already involve AIs so I don't want to be too repetitive.

Make "election" and "prison" type of quests and you will be rewarded with everlasting glory!

[Uhlang]

I would argue that the Kletka Simulator is the only colony building in this mod that would require new physics or extreme technological advancements.

This got me thinking a bit, and I think I stumbled upon a pretty good idea.
The primary obstacle in creating virtual realities realistic enough to fool even Alpha Cores is the absurd amount of computation required. The resource for computation is energy, each bit flipped generates heat, and a good heat sink allows more computations per joule. Landauer's principle.
Now, even if we're generous and assume that the Kletka simulations are good enough to trick the AIs without having to recreate everything at the atomic scale or below, they would still be so taxing in terms of computing that you would need a really, really potent heat sink to prevent the energy consumed by the computations from being so absurd it could cause planet-wide blackouts, and that would be the lesser of your worries, since the extreme heat generated would be melting the computers or even their host stations.

With that in mind, I think Kletka Simulators should receive a treatment similar to Industrial Evolution's Supercomputers and be completely limited to cold worlds. This would:
1. Be more realistic.
2. Make it harder to spam them and get obscene amounts of cores, effectively nerfing them without doing any real damage to their viability.
3. Incentivize creating tundra and frozen worlds.
The only negative to this I can think of is the inconvenience it would cause to certain oddballs that I'm not sure even exist. By that I mean those who use this mod's Kletka Simulators, yet disable terraforming. Seeing that the primary reason why anyone would do the latter is the clash with Starsector's current lore(terraforming being like a lost art and all,) I can't imagine there being many among them who would use the far more egregious offense against the lore that is the Kletka.

[boggled]

I would argue that the Kletka Simulator is the only colony building in this mod that would require new physics or extreme technological advancements.

This got me thinking a bit, and I think I stumbled upon a pretty good idea.
The primary obstacle in creating virtual realities realistic enough to fool even Alpha Cores is the absurd amount of computation required. The resource for computation is energy, each bit flipped generates heat, and a good heat sink allows more computations per joule. Landauer's principle.
Now, even if we're generous and assume that the Kletka simulations are good enough to trick the AIs without having to recreate everything at the atomic scale or below, they would still be so taxing in terms of computing that you would need a really, really potent heat sink to prevent the energy consumed by the computations from being so absurd it could cause planet-wide blackouts, and that would be the lesser of your worries, since the extreme heat generated would be melting the computers or even their host stations.

With that in mind, I think Kletka Simulators should receive a treatment similar to Industrial Evolution's Supercomputers and be completely limited to cold worlds. This would:
1. Be more realistic.
2. Make it harder to spam them and get obscene amounts of cores, effectively nerfing them without doing any real damage to their viability.
3. Incentivize creating tundra and frozen worlds.
The only negative to this I can think of is the inconvenience it would cause to certain oddballs that I'm not sure even exist. By that I mean those who use this mod's Kletka Simulators, yet disable terraforming. Seeing that the primary reason why anyone would do the latter is the clash with Starsector's current lore(terraforming being like a lost art and all,) I can't imagine there being many among them who would use the far more egregious offense against the lore that is the Kletka.

This is a pretty good idea. Instead of limiting it to only cold worlds, perhaps I'll make the upkeep costs vary depending on the temperature of the world. I don't want to implement this right away because people who update in the middle of a save will be annoyed by the increased upkeep. I'll wait until the next starsector update comes out so everyone will be starting from a new save.

[Uhlang]

Instead of limiting it to only cold worlds, perhaps I'll make the upkeep costs vary depending on the temperature of the world.

A good alternative, but I still think the simulators shouldn't be allowed on stations, since you'd still get to spam them with astropoli and again, realistically, the heat would just cook them.

[Mondaymonkey]

Maybe I'll create a quest to unlock a Kletka Simulator blueprint, although both my existing quests already involve AIs so I don't want to be too repetitive.

And ability to build Nexuses.

Spoiler

Joke

[close]

I see nothing bad in additional AI involving. In the universe, where AI is literally best way to make a serious calculations (and ultimately to do anithing) it would be strange if they not appear somehow in that kind of story. BTW I would not be surprised if EU lore-based used an AI in their terraforming projects.

Make "election" and "prison" type of quests and you will be rewarded with everlasting glory!

I can understand "election", but trying to create a "prison" quest will melt brain to any modder due to complexity.

[Chikanuk]

I can understand "election", but trying to create a "prison" quest will melt brain to any modder due to complexity.

I know nothing about modding... But it's impossible to "speed up" time on the map? Cuz over than this its just text quest.
Well, this is sad. Right now justice is game kinda stupid:

-Stop right here criminal scum! What we got here? 100 tons of drugs and organs, harvested from innocent people?... YOU ARE VERY NAUGHTY BOY! We are very disappoint! BAD! Now we just destroy this bad stuff and you free to go.

Right now its literally only 2 options - "you are bad boy, give up bad stuff and go" or "kill him on sight". And if prison mechanics impossible - make at least money penalty happens.

[Mondaymonkey]

Problem is not in speeding time on map. SS isn't comfortable in text quest writing. "Continuous hemorrhoids" kind of things. Do you remember how many different choices "prison" have? Even half of that amount will lead any modder to suicide.

[RedPirateKing]

Quick question (wasnt able to find the info in the previous 48 pages) would this conflict too badly with DIY planets? I love the idea of station building and stuff in this mod but also like the the other mod as well

[Mondaymonkey]

Quick question (wasnt able to find the info in the previous 48 pages) would this conflict too badly with DIY planets? I love the idea of station building and stuff in this mod but also like the the other mod as well

I might be wrong, but DIY planets works with completely different mechanism, so theoretically they can exist at the same, causing no problems. Until you start to terraform a single planet in a two ways at the same time.

You can always try set:

"boggledTerraformingContentEnabled":false,

In settings.json of TASC mode.

Although, there are no guaranty mods are compatible even with this. Plus I am not sure if DIY terraforming structures would be prohibited on TASC stations (they should be) and what will happen if you try to build them there...

Whatever the result would be, please make a post of that. And do not forget to made a backup save file before TASC installing, as it could not be removed from existing game.

[Vocation]

I guess if you really want to gate some content you can just make a building or industry that is like a "research lab" then you get special menu to research and invent the other buildings.

Also guys, remember that starsector is space game with magical phase tech and stuff. Normal physics doesn't completely apply. 

[Uhlang]

You don't even have to look at phase tech. Hyperspace is just pure fantasy and any sort of FTL is simply impossible because it breaks causality, conservation of mass and energy, and is essentially time travel, yet both of those things are part of Starsector's core mechanics.

Still, if you're making a lore-adjacent mod, real science is about the only compass you have left once you're out of lore.