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[SYDWAD]

nobody is saying they are very good at this point in the conversation, just that they are cheap.
Like i said above i think the only time they could be half good is if you have fleet ship cap turned off and you are trying to meme and do heavy fighter spam to confuse the enemy by having the absolute MOST on screen possible.

[goduranus]

Re: Reasons to use Condors:
I don't feel bad when it explodes.

This

[TaLaR]

Re: Reasons to use Condors:
...

It's harder to deal with for Afflictor (more so for Reaper build), being omni-shielded. Doesn't matter much to player (since AI is horrible at piloting phase frigates anyway), but makes Condors a bit more survivable in AI fleets.

[Plantissue]

Re: Reasons to use Condors:

It really is just plain inferior to the Drover, but it has a few redeeming qualities:

Salamander Pod in the medium, backed by fast missile racks, is good.

Its easy to find in campaign.

I don't feel bad when it explodes.

...

Wow thats really all I came up with. I hope its out of combat stats get a buff.

Hahaha. But as always, I got it for cheap because I recovered it isn't really a reason since it is true of everything. I suppose Salamander pod could be a reason, but does the AI uses its fast missile racks as you would expect? Vigilance and Pirate Falcon would be better for spamming Salamanders anyways.

So...it's easy to find in campaign and I don't feel bad when it explodes.

nobody is saying they are very good at this point in the conversation, just that they are cheap.
Like i said above i think the only time they could be half good is if you have fleet ship cap turned off and you are trying to meme and do heavy fighter spam to confuse the enemy by having the absolute MOST on screen possible.

I don't know what "you are trying to meme" means, but if you have fleet ship cap turned off (huh???) and you want to have as many fighters as possible, then you can spam infinitely any ship you want so there's no reason to choose a ship with only 2 fighter bays, so Astral is better anyways. Also Collossus MK III has more fighter bays per DP, so you are wrong anyways.

[TaLaR]

Also Collossus MK III has more fighter bays per DP, so you are wrong anyways.

But it's only converted quality. So, yes, it is cheaper at 8 DP vs 10 DP of Condor, but not exactly same.

[Plantissue]

He was writing about spamming fighters in his modded game for whatever reason, not about usefulness per DP, which the Condor is not good for anyways.

[xenoargh]

I kept wondering what would be an OK upgrade for the Condor. 

The easy answer is that the Condor should be the cheapest thing to deploy, per fighter.  Not the "best".

So in Rebal, the Condor costs 10 DP. 
Gemini, 9 (but it's multi-functional). 
Drover, 15; it costs nearly the same as a Venture, and it's less-survivable if it gets into direct contact with an enemy. 

This seems like a reasonable way to make each thing work within-theme.  Drovers are still very good, but not overwhelmingly so.  Condors are good for cheap fighter spam (and have had their OPs raised, so that they can carry more stuff / better fighters).  Geminis are more survivable; that's their sole saving grace. 

None of them are overwhelmingly better than a Heron, Mora or Colossus Mk. III; each one brings some advantage:
1.  Heron's flexible mount and mobile firepower.
2.  Mora's sheer toughness
3.  Colossus can now carry 4 Wings, keeping it in-theme as roughly, "two Condors plus a bit".

This is how it should be; none of the Destroyer-level Carriers should be vastly superior, per DP, to their Cruiser equivalents.  None of them are an Astral or Legion, either; Astrals are still able to deliver shield-tanking firepower and warp bombers into direct combat, Legions are able to fight like a Capital and bring fighters to the party. 

I think it's weird that people hate the Legion; it was obvious that it just needed some love to be great.

[Linnis]

Re: Reasons to use Condors:
...

I don't feel bad when it explodes.

...

This totally.

[Thaago]

The Condor does does use fast missile racks + Salamander Pod pretty well - I've seen it rarely do bursts of 6 (2 system uses) and frequently bursts of 4 (1 system use). Not perfect usage, but competent.

I feel like the Condor is both objectively slightly weak, but it suffers tremendously because its destroyer slot competition is so freaking good (in many stats literally twice as good as the Condor, and an overpowered ship system). When I use Condors in my fleet, they are fine. Not great, but they don't get in the way, and as long as I keep them backline they can contribute. Salamander Pod + 2 Talons + some flux stats and a LAG is an early game ship I use often because we get one in the tutorial, and it really helps with fast pirates.

My proposed Condor changes:
Cargo from 40 to 200.
Fuel from 30 to 60.
Combat speed from 40 to 50.

I think that would make the Condor useful as an early game/exploration/trade carrier.

[Plantissue]

The Condor does does use fast missile racks + Salamander Pod pretty well - I've seen it rarely do bursts of 6 (2 system uses) and frequently bursts of 4 (1 system use). Not perfect usage, but competent.

I feel like the Condor is both objectively slightly weak, but it suffers tremendously because its destroyer slot competition is so freaking good (in many stats literally twice as good as the Condor, and an overpowered ship system). When I use Condors in my fleet, they are fine. Not great, but they don't get in the way, and as long as I keep them backline they can contribute. Salamander Pod + 2 Talons + some flux stats and a LAG is an early game ship I use often because we get one in the tutorial, and it really helps with fast pirates.

My proposed Condor changes:
Cargo from 40 to 200.
Fuel from 30 to 60.
Combat speed from 40 to 50.

I think that would make the Condor useful as an early game/exploration/trade carrier.

Interesting suggestion, but wouldn't that step on the toes of the Gemini as a carrier cargo ship? Then again the Gemini does have 2 medium ballistic mounts. Ultimately, since fighters are powerful anyways, Condors are useful as long as they never get shot back at. The only problem is making sure of that, and if you have a choice, you would nearly always prefer Drovers for fighters.

[Locklave]

Captains is another reason.

Astral needs just 1..... Condors need many.

I'd sooner take an Astral over a dozen Condors.

This alone is a K/O. Captains are way too valuable to waste on condors spam.

[SYDWAD]

I don't know what "you are trying to meme" means, but if you have fleet ship cap turned off (huh???) and you want to have as many fighters as possible, then you can spam infinitely any ship you want so there's no reason to choose a ship with only 2 fighter bays, so Astral is better anyways. Also Collossus MK III has more fighter bays per DP, so you are wrong anyways.

That was a little abrasive, and i was talking for a realistic game, tonnes of people play with a mod that disables/increases fleet cap and its only late game that you can field one or several Astrals. And yes the Collossus MK III is two less supply but did you forget about:
"Converted Cargo Bay
This ship's cargo hold has been converted to house a pair of fighter bays. The improvised manufactory that produces fighter chassis is unreliable, and most components have minor defects. Fighter speed reduced by 33%, and damage taken increased by 50%."
It makes fighters absolutely worthless. There's a reason why its so cheap for its size.

[SYDWAD]

Colossus can now carry 4 Wings, keeping it in-theme as roughly, "two Condors plus a bit".

what? since when do they carry 4? im reading the wiki right now and it still only says 2 wings.
thats confusing

I think it's weird that people hate the Legion; it was obvious that it just needed some love to be great.

Ive seen alot of praise for the Legion, im personally not a fan because i prefer one ship that can do a specific role great over multi purpose craft. I find this strategy works better if  playing starsector as a RTS game. But i see the value in it, and it works as a brawler in a jiffy with harden shields, Reinforced Bulkheads and putting a ton of mining pods in it as big dumb flares/point defense to save points and put them into flux. With the pods you dont need to fill the small mounts on the sides.

[goduranus]

It makes fighters absolutely worthless. There's a reason why its so cheap for its size.

He was talking about his mod where the Colossus has 4 bays. Hmm, what if you spam Sparks with the Colossus, at 8 points for 10 Sparks it would be superior to Drover's 12 points for 14 sparks, if you use Safety Procedures 3 skill to reduce Converted Cargo Bays penalty.