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[Grievous69]

Okay,Ill admite I was not very clear with my suggestions,but you are really exaggerate. I never suggested buffing PD to that extend. And can you please tell me about this secret weapons that good vs fighters? I find a really hard time find such weapons aside from Locusts and my own fighters.

Literally every beam weapon in the game (Graviton might be a bit slow for that but when massed works), Railguns, Pulse lasers (small ones are also good), Autopulses, HAG, Devastator, Heavy Mauler, Mjolnir especially melts them. Basically everything that has good accuracy and decent projectile speed. There are of course more weapons suited for that but these first came to mind.

[TaLaR]

Plasma Cannons and TLs are the best ways to clear approaching fighter swarm. Of course, either your ship is already built around these or you can't fit them, so it's not something you could tweak just to counter fighters.

[Tackywheat1]

Heavy/Storm needlers
Well they actually aren't that effective vs Broadsword wings but they sure look cool while wiping out daggers

[Asherogar]

Okay,Ill admite I was not very clear with my suggestions,but you are really exaggerate. I never suggested buffing PD to that extend. And can you please tell me about this secret weapons that good vs fighters? I find a really hard time find such weapons aside from Locusts and my own fighters.

Literally every beam weapon in the game (Graviton might be a bit slow for that but when massed works), Railguns, Pulse lasers (small ones are also good), Autopulses, HAG, Devastator, Heavy Mauler, Mjolnir especially melts them. Basically everything that has good accuracy and decent projectile speed. There are of course more weapons suited for that but these first came to mind.

THAT's exactly my point! All this weapons (aside from Devastator) designed to deal with SHIPS,not small aircraft. Why even bother to use specific PD/Anti-air weapons when you can use your regular weapons with the same result or even better and also dont lower your combat effectivness against other ships? Why even bother with kinetic/HE damage types,lets just make all weapons deal energy hard flux damage,all this damage and defence types just meaningless overcomplication *sarcasm*

And about Devastator. Its feels awkward. I think better make flak cannon with highther rate of fire then this

[Innominandum]

Alex already said he'll be removing the 30 ship hard cap in the next update.

hard cap ?
"maxShipsInFleet":30,
"maxShipsInAIFleet":30,

settings.json Lines 482+
Haven't tried changing it, but now ill do

Yea invasion fleets with more than 50 ships not counting fighters start to spawn after you set it to 60

[Grievous69]

THAT's exactly my point! All this weapons (aside from Devastator) designed to deal with SHIPS,not small aircraft. Why even bother to use specific PD/Anti-air weapons when you can use your regular weapons with the same result or even better and also dont lower your combat effectivness against other ships? Why even bother with kinetic/HE damage types,lets just make all weapons deal energy hard flux damage,all this damage and defence types just meaningless overcomplication *sarcasm*

And about Devastator. Its feels awkward. I think better make flak cannon with highther rate of fire then this

So fighters aren't ships? What are they then, cucumbers? You bother with PD to stop missiles, mines, and enemies with stripped armor like fighters and annoying frigates. If a small ship drops shields, even burst PD can be dangerous for it.

[Igncom1]

Yeah fighters are just small ships, which makes fast turn rates and accuracy(or area of effect) important in killing them.

Which PD weapons often have the monopoly on without hull mods. Assault guns are great against armoured fighters, railguns for shielded fighters and energy weapons are in general all right against everything as usual.

The best defence against fighters is your own, I reccormend wasps as they drop lethal mines while fighting and are disposable drones. My personal favourites for dogfighting and very economical.

[Megas]

What is Devastator?  It is a frigate and destroyer swatter.  It is too bursty to be reliable against missiles (and maybe fighters), and a bit underpowered against large targets.  But it is good for Onslaught at smashing small annoying flankers too big for normal PD to stop quickly.  Flux efficient too!

What are fighters?  Since 0.8a, missiles by another name.  Much like Mjolnir is an energy weapon for a ballistic slot, fighters are missiles for its special slot.

[Thaago]

Okay,Ill admite I was not very clear with my suggestions,but you are really exaggerate. I never suggested buffing PD to that extend. And can you please tell me about this secret weapons that good vs fighters? I find a really hard time find such weapons aside from Locusts and my own fighters.

Literally every beam weapon in the game (Graviton might be a bit slow for that but when massed works), Railguns, Pulse lasers (small ones are also good), Autopulses, HAG, Devastator, Heavy Mauler, Mjolnir especially melts them. Basically everything that has good accuracy and decent projectile speed. There are of course more weapons suited for that but these first came to mind.

THAT's exactly my point! All this weapons (aside from Devastator) designed to deal with SHIPS,not small aircraft. Why even bother to use specific PD/Anti-air weapons when you can use your regular weapons with the same result or even better and also dont lower your combat effectivness against other ships? Why even bother with kinetic/HE damage types,lets just make all weapons deal energy hard flux damage,all this damage and defence types just meaningless overcomplication *sarcasm*

And about Devastator. Its feels awkward. I think better make flak cannon with highther rate of fire then this

Lets not be hyperbolic and silly - just because the game doesn't slot fighters into the preconceived boxes of 'ships' and 'aircraft' doesn't mean that everything is suddenly meaningless. Fighters are just small ships that are hyper specialized for combat - no cargo, no extra crew, no travel drive - while also being small enough to be built quickly in carrier based auto-factories.

PD is for anti missile and for protection against strike bombers - it also deals ok/low damage to fighters, especially when massed. Anti-fighter need high turn rate and accuracy, which IS a tradeoff for nearly all weapons.

[Plantissue]

I rather think that frigates being nonviable as a line-of-battle combatant in the face of capital ship firepower and range is a feature, not a bug. Frigates have been incapable of facing proper warships as far back as the Age of Sail. Destroyers have

Your preconceptions on the names of ship roles has no relevance to a discussion on game balance. In any case, the Afflictor, a frigate is used to face all other warships and quite successfully at that in the player's hands. Someone a while ago tried to mass Tempests successfully and claimed to be able to beat everything. The Omen has a place in a fleet always.

[Nysalor]

I rather think that frigates being nonviable as a line-of-battle combatant in the face of capital ship firepower and range is a feature, not a bug. Frigates have been incapable of facing proper warships as far back as the Age of Sail.

Your preconceptions on the names of ship roles has no relevance to a discussion on game balance. In any case, the Afflictor, a frigate is used to face all other warships and quite successfully at that in the player's hands. Someone a while ago tried to mass Tempests successfully and claimed to be able to beat everything. The Omen has a place in a fleet always.

Balance-wise, faster ships SHOULD lose a shootout to bigger, slower ships; otherwise, there's no reason to ever take those bigger, slower ships. So one 30-FP capital ship should be able, all things being equal, to take on 6 5-FP frigates and come out on top.

Now, obviously a sufficiently skilled player can beat pretty much anything in the game with pretty much anything in the game, and very fast ships are ideally suited to maximize the skill differential between a player and an AI. But capital ships should absolutely be *** of the walk in combat terms, as superior combat performance is the only justification, either balance-wise or in Watsonian terms, to build a giant, slow, heavily crewed, resource-hogging capital ship instead of a group of small, fast, cheap frigates.

[Goumindong]

If 8 Wolfs fought a Conquest in exactly even terms, the Wolfs would lose every single time,

If the conquest was set to kill frigates then maybe. But otherwise i put my money on the wolfs.

[sotanaht]

If 8 Wolfs fought a Conquest in exactly even terms, the Wolfs would lose every single time,

If the conquest was set to kill frigates then maybe. But otherwise i put my money on the wolfs.

"Even terms" in this case meant they were simply exchanging blows as a pure DPS race rather than using mobility to avoid taking damage and micro target availability, I don't think I conveyed that properly.  Wolfs absolutely can take advantage of their mobility, especially the ship system, to win against a Conquest.  The conquest having paper-thin shields and weak armor for a capital doesn't help matters either.

[Thaago]

If the wolves have an ion cannon like the default, my money is on the wolves. Narrow shield on the Conquest is not great for defeating ion swarms.

[TrashMan]

I think the biggest problem is forced mechanics that try to "brute-force" a ship into a role, rather than letting their strengths play out naturally.

A capital without range advantage can't do anything against a much faster DE. As a DE I'd just attack from exactly max range retreating just a bit when I need to vent. 2 DEs could easily tag-team any capital that doesn't one-shot them with TLs.

Why is that an issue? This a FLEET game. The capital will rarely be alone. And even more reason to have your own smaller, faster ships in a fleet.
And 2 DE's might not have enough DPS to tag-team. Remember, IF range depended on mount size (a large autocannon will have a bigger range than a small one), the capital will STILL have a range advantage on the account of more bigger mounts. It only won't be as overwhelming as it is now.

If you increase officer limits and change fleet limits to FP, rather than ship count, mroe diverse fleets would result.

Lastly, you have to think WHY smaller, lighter ships exist to begin with. From costs (abstracted, defense fleet upkeeps do not exist. If each fleet cost you upkeep depending on composition, players would act differently), the abillity to cover area (patrols) and interception/speed (if you persue a fleeing enemy, only smaller, faster ships get to flank)