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[Shoat]

Not enough large missile launchers in game to make this niche an important one to fill... Large LRM launcher please.

Maelstrom Missile System times five.

Just because it'd be that ridiculous.

[Dante80]

Thanks for the kind words guys...^^

I'd like to see you try your hand at a large, multi-deck "strike carrier" hull that also doesn't skimp on big slots for missile & ballistic firepower. Consider it as a hybrid battlecruiser / heavy carrier, like some of the Soviet Navy's radical designs.

It is a nice idea, the Kiev class hybrid carriers were very interesting concept designs at their time. I don't know though how you could balance the concept in the starfarer universe.

You see, we already have a couple of battlecruisers/battleships with hangar support (namely the Lotus Vanquish class and the Odyssey class), and you also cannot call the Astral fleet carrier unprotected with the number of weapon slots it has.

To both fit the Lotus tactics and serve as a plug between the condor and the astral, you would need to make a 2 decked fast support carrier design, based on a cruiser class hull. Since it would be a cruiser sized ship, you cannot put in more weapon slots than a heavy cruiser like the dominator or eagle.

Also I would like to suggest an upscaled revolver auto-cannon, some where to match with the HMG. I do so love the revolver auto-cannons and try to fit them on anywhere I can!

The upscaled version of the revolver (a quick firing weapon with explosive type ordnance) is actually the assault chaingun. To differentiate you would have to make a medium slot revolver assigned to PD and having a range of about 375 while removing the rotation delay of the chaingun (the dps would be about 300). I think though that while fitting the niche, you make the chaingun redundant that way and also run into the problem of choosing between this and the superlative flak cannons for your defense.

[Temjin]

I think the one thing Starfarer is missing (and this could be by design) is a small, fast, lightly armed "flight deck with an engine."

A frigate with a single flight deck and maybe one or two small mounts (or nothing at all?) would be interesting for a fast attack fleet, enabling a more efficient use (although perhaps slightly unbalanced) use of fighters.

[Dante80]

Yep, the way that flight decks work at this point in game development ensures that a "quick flight deck with engine" design concept would be somewhat flawed/overpowered.  It would also be rather illogical (yes, this is a game but still...) due to the amount of space and hangar bays needed for servicing even only one wing of small craft.

I think there are a couple of mods that add this feature though (I remember a hound light carrier variant called the dachsund), you might want to take a look at them for balance testing against vanilla. 

[2_Wycked]

Yeah, the Minimash includes the Daschund light carrier/frigate; it's about the size of a hound. I haven't noticed it being overpowered, as the AI usually just uses it as a Hound-type frigate, either not realizing (or unwilling) to utilize it's carrier capabilities. Maybe it's because they only appear in pirate fleets... I dunno.

[cp252]

If you set it a carrier waypoint...
It'd be way, way better than the Astral if only the stupid AI knew how to coordinate things when it's time to land fighters.

[Dante80]

I'd like to see you try your hand at a large, multi-deck "strike carrier" hull that also doesn't skimp on big slots for missile & ballistic firepower. Consider it as a hybrid battlecruiser / heavy carrier, like some of the Soviet Navy's radical designs.

It is a nice idea, the Kiev class hybrid carriers were very interesting concept designs at their time. I don't know though how you could balance the concept in the starfarer universe.

You see, we already have a couple of battlecruisers/battleships with hangar support (namely the Lotus Vanquish class and the Odyssey class), and you also cannot call the Astral fleet carrier unprotected with the number of weapon slots it has.

To further iterate that point. Here is how a Kiev class hybrid cruiser could be implemented in the game:

(sprite based on the exquisite puma class from the starfarer plus mod...just a different engine and nose compartment to illustrate the resulting configuration)



5 large mounts and 8 small together with 2 flight decks. It looks a little OP to me, especially when viewed against a standard heavy carrier like the Astral. A hybrid like that would both replace the functionality of a heavy carrier, and serve as a front like capital ship at the same time, thus making balancing a nightmare against vanilla.


What do you think?

[7007King0770]

Why not make all the platforms missile platforms, with no ballistic or energy mounts? And then make it so it cannot have the perk (I think it's called I forget) Expand Missile Racks by restricting its Ordinance Points? I think that MAY work, because once the ship fires off its first 1-3 salvos, it will be left defenseless in space, and rely on fighter, frigate, or destroyer support. Of course now that I think about it, if you gave it destroyer support it might become OP because the AI will get confused, and basically it's a meat shield for the destroyer...

This seems like one of those cases where the design is just to OP, so your only options are make it TOO powerful or TOO weak. I wish you luck on balancing it and I hope my feedback helps in some way.

P.S. Again your mod is my favorite of all, and I think of the the major reasons is it is really well balanced in comparison to many of the other mods out there.
P.S.S. Scrappers SO OP!
P.S.S.S. Where can I get a updated version of your signature for the mod?

[Dante80]

Thanks for the feedback....^^

Why not make all the platforms missile platforms, with no ballistic or energy mounts? And then make it so it cannot have the perk (I think it's called I forget) Expand Missile Racks by restricting its Ordinance Points? I think that MAY work, because once the ship fires off its first 1-3 salvos, it will be left defenseless in space, and rely on fighter, frigate, or destroyer support. Of course now that I think about it, if you gave it destroyer support it might become OP because the AI will get confused, and basically it's a meat shield for the destroyer...

This seems like one of those cases where the design is just to OP, so your only options are make it TOO powerful or TOO weak. I wish you luck on balancing it and I hope my feedback helps in some way.

There are a lot of things you can do to try and balance a design like that, but the main problem stands a priori. The design of a hybrid carrier/battlecruiser concept like the soviet Kiev class is in itself OP when used in the vanilla campaign. Thats what I was trying to illustrate. 

P.S.S.S. Where can I get a updated version of your signature for the mod?

Just right click on the signature, take the image location url and then mount it on your sig. Cheers...^^

[7007King0770]

Thanks!

[cp252]

...I still don't understand the title.

[CrashToDesktop]

So, is this mod updated?  I see it's in Omega's Minimash, but I'd like to see it alone.  All the other fleets tend to get in the way of the Lotus...Loti?  What's the plural form of Lotus???
Back to the subject, is it updated for .52a.1?

[Temjin]

Yep, the way that flight decks work at this point in game development ensures that a "quick flight deck with engine" design concept would be somewhat flawed/overpowered.  It would also be rather illogical (yes, this is a game but still...) due to the amount of space and hangar bays needed for servicing even only one wing of small craft.

I think there are a couple of mods that add this feature though (I remember a hound light carrier variant called the dachsund), you might want to take a look at them for balance testing against vanilla. 

Using someone else's sprite, I've modded in a high-tech Destroyer-sized Carrier with a medium missile slot and four small energy slots. It's fragile, but quick enough to keep up with a small fleet. At 11 FP, too, it's a big investment to bring along, but it doesn't seem to be any more powerful in large fleet actions than a Gemini with Augmented Engines (which travels at a slightly slower speed but has more toughness and similar PD capability).



Something of about that size and a speed around 70 (the same as an Aurora) to 80-ish would be a boon to small fighter-based raiding fleets. It's also a surprising amount of fun to fly, and I've toyed with swapping the medium Missile for a medium Energy turret to make it a slightly better flagship.

[Dante80]

Temjin, the hull type you describe already exists in the mod.  

Arcadia-class Light Carrier

[Dante80]

In the following days, I'll be looking into updating the mod so that it fits the latest 0.53 version.

Will need some suggestions for that, since its been a while and I don't currently know how well the mod fits with vanilla. Some of the things I gathered:

1. The revolver autocannon might need some additional nerfing.
2. Will have to add in ship subsystems. Most of the ship I think will need the speed boost, so as to keep the mod inside the Lore of the faction.
3. Will have to add another corvette and maybe a Capital.
4. Adjustments might be needed regarding the cargo and fuel carrying capacity for some ships.

What should the player look for when choosing or encountering the Lotus Conglomerate? Any and every feedback would be vastly appreciated, cheers. ^^