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[Morgan Rue]

I've stopped taking Industrial Planning because of how strong it is. In my experience, without Industrial Planning colonies are not nearly as strong as they are with it. The flat production increase makes colonies immediately profitable, and the +30% all income applied before upkeep makes even high hazard worlds quite profitable. On a low hazard habitable world, this makes 500k per month reasonably attainable.

Even without Industrial Planning, colonies are a bit too strong, but I think Industrial Planning makes colonies seem significantly more overpowered than they actually are.
Perhaps Industrial Planning's +30% all income could be applied after upkeep, or could be lowered to +10% all income?

[Midnight Kitsune]

I've stopped taking Industrial Planning because of how strong it is. In my experience, without Industrial Planning colonies are not nearly as strong as they are with it. The flat production increase makes colonies immediately profitable, and the +30% all income applied before upkeep makes even high hazard worlds quite profitable. On a low hazard habitable world, this makes 500k per month reasonably attainable.

Even without Industrial Planning, colonies are a bit too strong, but I think Industrial Planning makes colonies seem significantly more overpowered than they actually are.
Perhaps Industrial Planning's +30% all income could be applied after upkeep, or could be lowered to +10% all income?

From the patch notes:
Industrial Planning: level one now reduces upkeep by 10% instead of reducing demand

Also, Alex plans on adjusting colonies down a bit this next patch due to how much of a money maker they are

[Goumindong]

I never found industrial planning all that strong. Income from colonies is high enough it doesnt much atter really

[Megas]

Industry just for colony skills is a high price to pay (nine less skills for Combat and/or Navigation).  Better be worth it.

With the level 1 change to less upkeep, player will probably need items to keep up with demand, which means unwanted Pather cells.

[Kohlenstoff]

I had a hard time building up my colonies and had never the feeling that they drop much money. Especially at the beginning i had lot to do with pirates and expeditions where i had to participate way too often to save the day. After getting the colony 4-6 i had to start to use blue items because money became often critical. I got 20 colonies now but during the buildup i had to work HARD for the required items to maximize the income. And this income is still despite my long decisions for where and how to place colonies just a mere 650.000 per month and this is actually even the peak and this is just because i have lot of items. When pathers or pirates get in mood the income can drop to spending. My peak bank was 30 Million, but i reinvested it in growing to stabilize the income and some of it had to be spend into hegemony to get "results, which satisfy all parties". More colonies require more work. Doing bounties instead and farming the endgame systems while just having 3 colonies would actually have been more profitable in the long run.

[Morgan Rue]

From the patch notes:
Industrial Planning: level one now reduces upkeep by 10% instead of reducing demand

Also, Alex plans on adjusting colonies down a bit this next patch due to how much of a money maker they are

Reduced upkeep instead of reduced demand is a buff, I'm fairly certain. I'm worried colonies will be nerfed too much and balanced around Industrial Planning.

[Midnight Kitsune]

From the patch notes:
Industrial Planning: level one now reduces upkeep by 10% instead of reducing demand

Also, Alex plans on adjusting colonies down a bit this next patch due to how much of a money maker they are

Reduced upkeep instead of reduced demand is a buff, I'm fairly certain. I'm worried colonies will be nerfed too much and balanced around Industrial Planning.

Actually Alex is planning on removing player demand from the market calcs as well so it is no longer lost money to reduce demand

[Serenitis]

Industrial Planning seems too strong

Alternate perspective:
If you do not make regular use of boosting items and free port because you actually want to play the game instead of a babysitting simulator, and don't care in the slightest about min-maxing, then getting a full set of Industrial Planning skills is like taking off a tight pair of shoes.

[Megas]

I think (current) Industrial Planning could be too strong because it is must-have.  The question is who gets the skill?  You or alpha core (or two-skill NPC in case of secondary colony)?  Those who shove alphas in their colonies without thinking twice will not even think about getting the skill themselves when those points can go into combat.

Personally, I do not want to rely on cores because 1) I do not want another alert to deal with (inspections) and 2) I would not be surprised if a later version has alphas secede from your empire under some conditions.

P.S.  Rather, Industrial Planning could be must-have in the same way (#1 perk) Electronic Warfare 1 is.  Electronic Warfare 1 is must-have not because it is overpowered, but because it provides basic defense against enemy ECM that cannot be gained any other way (short of putting ECM hullmod on all of your OP-starved ships).  Without Industrial Planning, player will probably need to abuse cores and other items to meet demand.

[Kohlenstoff]

Alternate perspective:
If you do not make regular use of boosting items and free port because you actually want to play the game instead of a babysitting simulator, and don't care in the slightest about min-maxing, then getting a full set of Industrial Planning skills is like taking off a tight pair of shoes.

Thats the point. Especially because some pirate bases pirates can cause immediately a 50 % accessibility loss and luddics can disrupt industries for 100+ days. Both causes major losses. Not to forget, that finding the luddics base without cheating is serious work, which can take a while and gives just a mere 300 days of "safety". Maybe a choosable "hard" and "normal" colony option could satisfy everyone.

[Megas]

Thats the point. Especially because some pirate bases pirates can cause immediately a 50 % accessibility loss and luddics can disrupt industries for 100+ days.

And they bypass colony defenses too, unlike invasions from major factions.  This is why I consider Pirates and Pathers the most important endgame enemies, and loadouts that are not very effective against major factions (like beam boats) are more useful for this release.  I suppose Remnants can be important too if player wants their loot.

With current skills and bugged nanoforges, it is possible for player to meet demand and avoid Pather cells.  For next release, changed Industrial Planning 1 means player will need items (cores or synchrotron/nanoforge) to satisfy demand for some of the more useful industries, which means Pather cells will be unavoidable.  Actually, if I want to build pristine ships, then pathers will already be unavoidable after that nanoforge bug gets fixed next release.

One problem with a big empire with built-up planets scattered around is pather cells.  If I need to kill more than one pather base to defend my colonies, then the time wasted on babysitting increases, possibly to unacceptable levels.  The yearly quota for babysitting required to defend against pop-up pirate activity and yearly pather purge is already obnoxious.  There needs to be a way to pay bounties or commission NPCs to kill bases when colony threat alerts flash at the worst possible time (e.g., halfway between your colony at one sector fringe to red planet or tech cache at the other side of the sector).

And next release, when defending against invasions will cost reputation, player will probably need to take time off (from fun stuff) to repair reputation from time to time.

[Kohlenstoff]

Megas, you tell exactly, what i think. At the current state of my current save the colony babysitting is already often at the border of annoyance. I have 23 colonies in convenient locations around the sector with fuel and supply depot (waystation) in each group of 3. Most are at size 8+ but it doesnt reduce impact of pirates and luddics in affected systems.

And next release, when defending against invasions will cost reputation, player will probably need to take time off (from fun stuff) to repair reputation from time to time.

After this release it is more probable, that you will have time off from babysitting and reputation gaining to have some fun stuff from time to time. Loosing reputation until war with only 1 or 2 factions will probably make colonies outside of core worlds completely unbearable even without nerving industral planning and maybe even with all the items. That will also be the time to say good bye to any type of sector except old star sectors with maximum number of habitable planets to get at least some colonies profitable under these circumstances. I will keep the current version of the game in my storage.

[SCC]

I agree with Goumindong here. While good skills (or a good administrator) make a good colony broken, I feel that a good colony is broken in the first place, since it's a risk-free (eventually) money making machine that never stops, and presumably also supplies you with infinite supply of ships and weapons.

[Megas]

Income to throw ships and weapons at the problem sounds like the next phase of the game.

Rather than be tomb raider or space pirate for the whole game, player can be a king or administrator and have resources to build an army and do things at a strategic level.

So far, there is not much player can do strategically aside from build colonies (and become babysitter) and burn the remaining core worlds down to the ground.

[FooF]

Income to throw ships and weapons at the problem sounds like the next phase of the game.

Rather than be tomb raider or space pirate for the whole game, player can be a king or administrator and have resources to build an army and do things at a strategic level.

So far, there is not much player can do strategically aside from build colonies (and become babysitter) and burn the remaining core worlds down to the ground.

Right. Getting a bunch of colonies off the ground and creating a means to independently generate income and/or fleets is the first step towards being able lose entire fleets and still press on toward a higher goal. Who knows what the endgame is but with the current colony system at least we know that the player could reasonably engage in a war of attrition.

As far as Industrial Planning is concerned, I'll wait to see how colonies are tweaked in 9.1. I think what we have now is too strong but then again, we have nothing to use the colonies for at the moment. They've become an end to themselves (just like fleets were prior to 0.9).