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Author Topic: Ships now break apart!  (Read 32831 times)

Gothars

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Ships now break apart!
« on: July 30, 2016, 10:20:07 AM »

Via twitter: https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/759412823948689408




Isn't that awesome!? I mean, it doesn't actually do much for the gameplay, but its just such great eye candy ;D And I was looking forward to it for such a long time. BTW, the pieces are randomly generated on the fly, not pre-made.


Just a few questions: Does this always happen as a ship gets disabled, or is it random/conditional? Does it happen with all ships? What does this mean for boarding/salvaging?

And... is this connected in any way to death throes, aka "sinking ships"? :)

« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 10:45:17 AM by Gothars »
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Alex

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2016, 10:45:40 AM »

Isn't that awesome!? I mean, it doesn't actually do much for the gameplay, but its just such great eye candy ;D And I was looking forward to it for such a long time. BTW, the pieces are randomly generated on the fly, not pre-made.

!!!

(As you can probably tell, I'm a bit excited about this. Also: you can shoot at the debris to break the chunks up further, and eventually destroy them outright when they're small enough. Which actually comes into play in some REDACTED situations.)

Just a few questions: Do this always happen as a ship gets disabled, or is it random or is it conditional? Does it happen with all ships? What does this mean for boarding/salvaging?

When a ship is disabled, there's a chance this will happen. The chance and min/max number of pieces are set per-ship in ship_data.csv. On average, the chance is around 50%.

Ships that break up won't be available for boarding. For salvage, "destroyed" ships will contribute more than they do now, probably about the same as "disabled".


And is this connected in any way to death throes, aka "sinking ships"?

Initially, I was thinking of this "ship breaking up" being the end stage of a longer ship destruction animation. Gave this a try, and it just didn't feel right.

One problem was that taking away the initial explosion - and putting it in later, pre-breakup - took away a lot of the satisfaction of blowing up a ship. And if you put the explosion at the start, it felt weird to have the ship fall to pieces after a delay. That could probably be "sold" better with more visual and sound effects - secondary explosions, etc - but at that point, you're not really paying attention to it and have probably moved on to another target. Felt like adding that in would be more visual and audio clutter than it was worth.

What I tried, btw, was "on losing all of its hull, a ship gets a hidden HP bar with X% of its original hull, which goes down quickly (and can be reduced by further damage), and when it reaches zero, explosion + breakup". Which sounds great on paper! The other problem here was that, as it turns out, ships usually take a *lot* of overkill when they blow up, so X being any reasonable number barely made any difference, especially for ships smaller than capitals.

So, overall, I think I just really like the immediacy of how ship destruction currently works. It's satisfying and it doesn't belabor the point in terms of feedback to the player on what's happening.
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HELMUT

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2016, 10:50:25 AM »

That's a pretty cool feature.

I think the whole salvage/boarding system will probably change after that, Alex talked about debris fields in the last blogspot so this would make sense. The looting, instead of being a screen after the battle, could instead require to interact with the debris field, and depending of the player skills, will net you more or less supplies (and perhaps a still functional ship?)

Edit : Ninja'd and wrong.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 11:07:18 AM by HELMUT »
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Dri

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2016, 10:51:00 AM »

Oh jeez, so it isn't just a purely visual thing but is also tied somewhat to actual game mechanics. Nice!
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Weltall

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2016, 10:54:07 AM »

I got a heart attack... a really strong and wonderful heart attack... This is such a cool eyecandy and such a bad think since the ships will not be available for boarding...... BUT MORE SALVAGE MWAHAHAHA!

Will the explosion from the ship breaking up cause damage to ships that are really closeby?
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Dri

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2016, 10:57:33 AM »

Wait, is anyone noticing that stream of 4 rocket-type weapons? Those are coming at a much faster rate and tighter spread than what Annihilator Pods are capable of...or maybe they are Annihilator pods but with Missile Spec 10. Hmm...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 10:59:26 AM by Dri »
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mendonca

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2016, 11:15:57 AM »

He he he!

Looks great :)
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Alex

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2016, 11:26:42 AM »

and such a bad think since the ships will not be available for boarding...... BUT MORE SALVAGE MWAHAHAHA!

Oh, forgot to mention: base chance to board will go up to compensate.

Will the explosion from the ship breaking up cause damage to ships that are really closeby?

It's the normal "ship blew up" explosion, so yes.

Looks great :)

:D :D :D
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Tartiflette

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2016, 12:10:47 PM »

Initially, I was thinking of this "ship breaking up" being the end stage of a longer ship destruction animation. Gave this a try, and it just didn't feel right.

One problem was that taking away the initial explosion - and putting it in later, pre-breakup - took away a lot of the satisfaction of blowing up a ship. And if you put the explosion at the start, it felt weird to have the ship fall to pieces after a delay. That could probably be "sold" better with more visual and sound effects - secondary explosions, etc - but at that point, you're not really paying attention to it and have probably moved on to another target. Felt like adding that in would be more visual and audio clutter than it was worth.

What I tried, btw, was "on losing all of its hull, a ship gets a hidden HP bar with X% of its original hull, which goes down quickly (and can be reduced by further damage), and when it reaches zero, explosion + breakup". Which sounds great on paper! The other problem here was that, as it turns out, ships usually take a *lot* of overkill when they blow up, so X being any reasonable number barely made any difference, especially for ships smaller than capitals.

So, overall, I think I just really like the immediacy of how ship destruction currently works. It's satisfying and it doesn't belabor the point in terms of feedback to the player on what's happening.

When I tried some ship break-up for Seeker, I used the exact opposite approach: I kept the initial explosion breaking the ship apart, but then the pieces were still active! They had a few usable weapons, a bit of flux capacity and almost no dissipation. So killing the ship was still satisfying, but the burning debris flying everywhere still trying to kill you added a nice touch without being too dangerous. Well, unless you turned away from the debris too fast and took a volley of missiles to the rear just before their final explosion.



Big gif in spoiler:
Spoiler


You can see the top left chunk firing it laser, and the bottom right one launching a volley of missiles just before getting out of the screen (it generally have enough time to launch two salvos before the timed death take it out, but it isn't visible here.
[close]
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Gothars

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2016, 12:23:31 PM »


One problem was that taking away the initial explosion - and putting it in later, pre-breakup - took away a lot of the satisfaction of blowing up a ship.
 The other problem here was that, as it turns out, ships usually take a *lot* of overkill when they blow up, so X being any reasonable number barely made any difference, especially for ships smaller than capitals.

Makes sense. Shame, it was so cool in my mind.

Maybe if we decouple both mechanics? ATM ships sometimes self- repair after battle. Disabled hulls could had a chance to reactivate during battle (maybe only then?), with 0CR and limited time to reach the edge of the map and escape. Thanks to the break up effect there'd be no doubt if a ship has a chance to reactivate or not. And it would make the whole mechanic more dramatic.



e/ After seeing Tart's implementation, one suggestion for a purely visual improvement: maybe smaller chunks  could fly away from the explosion with a higher velocity?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 12:31:14 PM by Gothars »
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Dri

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 12:53:39 PM »

Yeah, I think a few randomly thrown out gibs (that have no collision) would look good!
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Alex

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 01:00:34 PM »

When I tried some ship break-up for Seeker, I used the exact opposite approach: I kept the initial explosion breaking the ship apart, but then the pieces were still active! They had a few usable weapons, a bit of flux capacity and almost no dissipation. So killing the ship was still satisfying, but the burning debris flying everywhere still trying to kill you added a nice touch without being too dangerous. Well, unless you turned away from the debris too fast and took a volley of missiles to the rear just before their final explosion.

Very cool! Yeah, this seems like it works nicely on all counts.

(Not that you were explicitly suggesting it, but as far as adding that sort of thing to vanilla: it's more a question of how much more time I want to spend on it - right now, tying up all the loose ends and then it's back to the exploration/salvage stuff.)

Makes sense. Shame, it was so cool in my mind.

Yeah, same. Especially the part about delaying the damaging portion of the explosion, that was (and is) very elegant. This is so typical, though... something seems great, then you try it and it's just all "but, no". But in the process you end up with something else that works.

Maybe if we decouple both mechanics? ATM ships sometimes self- repair after battle. Disabled hulls could had a chance to reactivate during battle (maybe only then?), with 0CR and limited time to reach the edge of the map and escape. Thanks to the break up effect there'd be no doubt if a ship has a chance to reactivate or not. And it would make the whole mechanic more dramatic.

Ah, that wasn't the part I liked about "sinking ships" :)

e/ After seeing Tart's implementation, one suggestion for a purely visual improvement: maybe smaller chunks  could fly away from the explosion with a higher velocity?
Yeah, I think a few randomly thrown out gibs (that have no collision) would look good!

That does look good, but I also like the pieces sticking together and maintaining their general trajectory. Something majestic about bits of a ship still moving together and drifting apart slowly. Plus you can really see how the pieces fit together, which I think is nice.

Ah, but you're talking about smaller chunks, right. Those actually do tend to fly away a bit faster just due to the physics - they have less mass, bump into larger pieces, and bounce off more. But it's still not super fast.

I'll keep an eye on it and see how it feels, though. Probably not quite through tweaking things.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 03:52:24 PM »

Oh, shiny. :) Going to look forward to this next update more than I have any one before!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 03:56:48 PM by The Soldier »
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Weltall

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 05:49:48 PM »

With all the new stuff, will the new update be 0.8a?
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Dri

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Re: Ships now break apart!
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 06:43:19 PM »

Speaking of the next update...patch notes when? Still a few more months before enough has been done to warrant a post?
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