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[Weltall]

Thank god for at least Bundle Stars. I have used sites like G2A a handful of times the last years ever since I saw someone recommending them, but I could never imagine that I was not only not helping the creators, but harming them. I always thought it was something different, like them finding a chance to buy them really cheap and then selling them for a profit. Reading the article you sent I can see why this happens, since it seems even known youtubers seem to endorse them, be it they know all this or not.

I am kind of glad I asked about it and was told these sites actually do more harm :/ I kind of feel glad Starsector is not in Steam yet.

Obviously I removed the link. I can definitely see why it should not be in here, or anywhere else for that matter.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this Alex. Everyone should know about this for sure..

@Tartiflette I am sure they are legally stolen XD, but I never imagined this could take place online, mostly because paypal and all the protections credit cards have.. I just never thought these protections could actually be a tool these people use, by stealing credit cards. 

[Midnight Kitsune]

About the bundle groups, according to the Tiny Build post ( http://tinybuild.com/g2a-sold-450k-worth-of-our-game-keys ) these bundle groups are OK: (Taken from the linked article)
"UPDATE2.
In the original article I refer to key distribution partners, the ones that G2A claim are sneakily reselling keys. I can confirm without a doubt that these partners do not resell their keys: Humble Store, BundleStars, IndieGameStand, IndieGala. They’re our trusted partners and everything you buy from them is legit."

[Weltall]

My two top sites I use is steamdb.info and Bundle Stars. I have though at times looked around and found cheap key sites. I really could not even imagine what was behind the low prices. Sure I imagined a low gain, but this is really as the article says, worse than piracy. This would be beyond my comprehension, if I did not read this article and how sites like G2A in a way sell stolen goods, gain money and then the actual companies have to pay out of their pockets for these keys. It does not only cut down sales like piracy. It is doing double the bad. I would not imagine this not even in my wildest fantasies..

PS: Thank you for posting these names Midnight Kitsune.. makes me happy to see Humble Store and IndieGala in the list too T_T

[Serenitis]

Welt, if you have any questions about any of the games mentioned so far and thier various good/bad bits post 'em before you throw money at a game that might not be something you like.
I'm sure between us all we can find you something fun you'll be happy with.

[Weltall]

Thanks Serenitis. I am currently trying my best to get familiar with MoO 2. I love the graphics, but probably because I am not used to it, it feels kind of rough.

As for the new games, Distant Worlds is in my list. I hope sooner or later it will go back on sale. From checking the steamdb, seems it was actually on a 60% off on may! If only I knewwwww. Well patience is gold.

As for Endless Sky, it is free, so no money thrown there. I am definitely playing it even if it is not 4X exactly.

Battlestation Harbinger looks nice too. Looks like Endless Sky, but more polished and kind of reminds me of Beyond Sol, which I love.

If I fail with MoO2, I will go back to Sword of the Stars, which I have, so no money there either.

In a way afar from MoO2 and Distant Worlds that I have never played either, I do not know which other 4X games that will be like them to consider. I really want a map and a reason to get headache right now and not to fly around. Just finished a Starsector game and I enjoyed the semi action for now~ Now I was something more strategic. I would play Crusader Kinds 2, but it kind of lacks.. well.. space XD

[TJJ]

Any site consistently selling Steam keys cheaper than Steam itself should spell "shady". Or do you also believe the watches of street sellers are both genuine and legally obtained?   

Not true generally, but G2A's marketplace is indeed full of shady dealers.

[TJJ]

What's the 4x game where you join together planets/star systems that produce different goods in order to create higher level systems?
e.g. A level 4 planet/system will need to be fed from several level 3 systems; they themselves will be fed by several level 2 systems, and in turn fed from several level 1 systems.

That's about the only mechanic I can remember, but it was quite unique.

[Weltall]

Star Ruler 2?

[TJJ]

Star Ruler 2?

Ha!
Was just about to post, "Never mind, found it; Star Ruler 2"
Remember having a good time with it.... but clearly not that good, as I can't remember much of it  

Honestly I'd just give up on 4x space strategy, and, if you don't already own it, buy CK2. Best grand strategy ever made. (CK2=Crusader Kings 2)

[Weltall]

Star Ruler 2.. I just tried it but it felt quite stale after a while, but I honestly did not give it much time. I gave up on it and got a refund. I remember it was barely over one and a half hour, since I did not want to lose the refund. It felt like a game to pass time, but not one that got me.

I can't live in a world without CK2 (although I can live in a world without every single of their DLC XD)

I was a Europa Universalis lover since 2, with 3 being so epic to me. Back then I could never imagine 4 would become so grand.

I do not remember if I tried CK 1 or 2 first, but I remember it baffled me and I threw it away, cause it was way too complicated for me to enjoy. Now.. I just get too hooked up. I can't get enough of all the ways that one can expand of CK2 and how much a strategy game can stimulate me XD Games like this are what make me try to learn steep learning curve games, cause they all end up being great.... except the moment where random events kill my awesome king and throw everything to hell.

But my last game, even if it was a while ago, it was me starting in CK2 and continuing in EU4 wit hthe converter.. I had enough of Paradox for a while. This is why I look for something else and grand. I hoped Civilization in space would be something that would get me, but it just not work out I guess.

[Serenitis]

Thanks Serenitis. I am currently trying my best to get familiar with MoO 2. I love the graphics, but probably because I am not used to it, it feels kind of rough.

MoO2 is kind of rough tbh. It is not all that well balanaced, and some of the mechanics are really not that good or fun to use.
It does have a certain charm, and the more tactical oriented combat can make fights very entertaining.
The whole thing is full of micromanagement though. (This may be a + or a - depending on your tastes.)

As for the new games, Distant Worlds is in my list. I hope sooner or later it will go back on sale. From checking the steamdb, seems it was actually on a 60% off on may! If only I knewwwww. Well patience is gold.

Hope you have lots of gold. DW doesn't go on sale all that often.
It is a nice game, and similar to MoO2 is full of micromanagement. But unlike MoO2 you can automate anything/everything and the AI does an okay job of not ruining your stuff.
Its just soooo expensive for what it is....

In a way afar from MoO2 and Distant Worlds that I have never played either, I do not know which other 4X games that will be like them to consider. I really want a map and a reason to get headache right now and not to fly around. Just finished a Starsector game and I enjoyed the semi action for now~ Now I was something more strategic.

If you want pure strategy with no fluff there is one thing I can think of, but it requires some effort to get and run.
Stars!

It is old. So old it was made in assembler 16-bit so even though it requires windows to run (it was made for win3.1 originally), it will not run on a modern OS.
So to make it work at all since compatibility is irrelevant for 16-bit apps, you have to run it in a windows 3 shell inside a DOSbox shell. If that's not too much of a tortuous route or anything. I suppose you could use a virtual machine too, but I already had DOSbox so....
The other challenge is getting hold of it. It used to be sold under the "Xplosiv" label, but the only places I can find it now are amazon and ebay.
If you want a headache, then this will give you one. (All of getting it, making it work, and getting ruined by the AI.)

[Weltall]

Micromanagement is not my cup of tea, but if the game is able to make be get obsessed with it, I can comply with keeping my mind in many things. Sadly though my mind was not made for micromanagement. I am currently watching a tutorial on MoO 2, trying to understand it a bit more than just from what the manuals explain.

DW... is just sp expensive... but I guess it justifies it price because it is the base game with all the DLC? Either way from a quick look at steamdb, it seems it actually goes on say quite often, every so many moths at 50%. The sure is it is on the summer sales, so I just have to wait a year at most.... ahem.. I hope not.

As for that last one.. GOG should release more titles XD Seems at least Amazon does not deliver to Greece and if it did, the price would be over 20 euro. Ebay has 1 copy, but I have been unable to buy from ebay for a long time now, ever since the whole Greece problems started. I can buy with credit card, but my debit does not use.. and I do not use credit cards online.

Since the whole topic went on how G2A is bad, how bad is it use Abandonware? Empire Interactive (Xplosiv) seems to have went defunct in 2009. Would that make it morally wrong to use it's game from abandonware sites?

[TJJ]

Since the whole topic went on how G2A is bad, how bad is it use Abandonware? Empire Interactive (Xplosiv) seems to have went defunct in 2009. Would that make it morally wrong to use it's game from abandonware sites?

If you can't buy a game, or the asking price is unreasonable, I have no problem sourcing games from alternative sources.

Morality is very much subjective; it's up to each individual to decide what they consider fair.

[Serenitis]

So less micromanagement is good....

You can play MoO2 without micro-ing every detail, but it makes the game a fair bit harder.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
Playing as the Psilons will give you a pretty good feel for what's in the game, as one of thier traits allows them to use every part of the tech tree rather than a fraction of it. (Or a custom race with the 'Creative' trait.)

In the spirit of less micro, there is Heagemonia.
A kind of hybrid rpg/4x more focused on small scale action rather than management. The campaign has persistant units and leaders which grow as you advance, there is some degree of management but it is pretty minimal.
There is little in way of exploration etc. as the campaign is essentially a set piece, but it is entertaining enough.
I've never played the expansion so can't comment on that.

There was another game I remember from a few years ago from an indie dev, called Starships Unlimited that seemed fairly decent.

[TJJ]

RTS, rather than 4x, but Conquest: Frontier Wars is an often overlooked oldie.