Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Artillery and Siege Craft  (Read 4094 times)

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Artillery and Siege Craft
« on: June 19, 2016, 02:16:21 AM »

So since SS+ cut the Castle with its range extending system, the analogue I could make might be dated to people who actually used to get that beast and toyed around with it a lot, but I still want to pitch integrating that sort of stuff into the game. Not just as a single unique ship but as a series of ship systems that can be re-used on different sizes and classes of vessels to achieve different affects and use-cases. And in that spirit, here we go!

Siege Ships; Siege craft are geared towards making use of longer ranged sustained guns to provide long-range fire support. Ship system is a toggle, all soft flux the ship has when you turn the system on is turned to hard flux and the active vent is disabled (to discourage microtoggling, would need to be balanced, and maybe combined with a relatively long wind-down time before you can vent or shield again), shields are disabled and engine functionality severely reduced, and the system generates hard flux at the rate that it would generate soft flux from its shield. All weapons on the ship have their range reduced by 300 and then multiplied by four (give or take some tweaking and balancing, of course. Or being made into a per-size type deal like some hullmods are).
This gives the ship an exacerbated range curve on its weapons. PD and knife-fighting weapons are basically disabled, close support weapons are extended into artillery range and normal-ranged in-between guns are given a range boost enough to be able to lay fire on enemies as they close in on the ship but if the ship is caught by an interceptor its inability to knife-fight puts it at a huge disadvantage, and LRM's are an active hard-counter that forces an undefended siege ship to drop its range to fend off enemy barrages

Artillery Ship; geared towards using strike-weapons for a staggered close-support assault. This ship is meant to use close support weapons when it isn't using its system, as opposed to the siege ships. The system is again a toggle. This time when you activate (and deactivate) the system your ship generates a good chunk of soft flux (enough that venting after firing and then turning the system back on as soon as the vent ends doesn't actually save time), and while active the engines are slightly reduced and the guns don't work unless at 0-flux. In exchange, when at 0-flux instead of getting a speed boost, all weapons get a flat 400 and then x1.5 range boost (antimatter gets up to 1200 range, the 800-1000 range cannons to 1800-2100).
These ships, while not being extreme-ranged, are able to toe up to the engagement of an enemy who's being held back by a friendly ship and lay down alpha strikes at a range safe from all but close support and other range-boosted vessels. The 0-flux restriction and the focus on (frequently flux-inefficient) strikes means that against other ships that are capable of long-range harassment these ones will generally lose a long-distance punch-out, but because it has the ability to raise shields as needed and then drop them without needing to drop its commitment to the long-range mode and has only slightly decreased maneuverability it is much less vulnerable providing close support and reacts better to nearby threats


What do you guys think? Anyone else miss the Castle's firing platform mechanic?
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12159
    • View Profile
Re: Artillery and Siege Craft
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 05:26:18 AM »

I tried siege systems on a few mod ships.  Basically, I use them when safe, then turn them off when not safe anymore.  I will not care about wind-down or recharging.  I will simply run away while the system recharges if I cannot win any other way.  If the system is a pain to use, I will only use it if the alterative is death.  (For example, blaster Aurora gets popped trying to fight Paragon.)  All that matters is wearing down the enemy without getting shot back.
Logged

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Re: Artillery and Siege Craft
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 01:07:20 PM »

I tried siege systems on a few mod ships.  Basically, I use them when safe, then turn them off when not safe anymore.  I will not care about wind-down or recharging.  I will simply run away while the system recharges if I cannot win any other way.  If the system is a pain to use, I will only use it if the alterative is death.  (For example, blaster Aurora gets popped trying to fight Paragon.)  All that matters is wearing down the enemy without getting shot back.

Which really just means that they aren't getting balanced properly. Something like a severe rangeboost needs to be balanced out by providing hard counters, like my suggestions provide (lrms for siege and light close support for artillery)
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then

Megas

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 12159
    • View Profile
Re: Artillery and Siege Craft
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2016, 03:21:33 PM »

I think siege mode, however it is implemented, is too hard or impossible to balance.  The hard counters you propose (no cancelling, no PD weapons, hard flux building) would make the system suicidal and turn your siege ship into a sitting duck.  I would not want to give such a ship to the AI because it would inevitably turn it on and get itself killed.  Mobility is too important in Starsector.
Logged

Gorgonson

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: Artillery and Siege Craft
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2016, 06:51:06 PM »

MShadowy's Shadowyards contains the Tartarus, which has a siege mode ship-system.  This increases the efficiency and coverage of the shields, while boosting the range of the ship's weapons.  The downside is the heavily reduced maneuverability and speed.  I found that a fully-encapsulating shield at heightened efficiency was a tough nut to crack, and a small hole in the rear of the ship would go a long way toward balancing the siege mode.  In addition to this, weapon arcs with great coverage worked well at offsetting the penalties of siege mode, and a reduction in weapon arc swivel range, focusing the ship in a particular direction, would go well with the hole towards the rear of the ship.  A dedicated team or skilled pilot could exploit this weakness to take down the siege mode ship in question.  I find myself imagining the Death Star being taken down.

I apologise if this reads like a post about Shadowyards - that's just my singular experience with a siege mode in Starsector.

And one final note:  How would long-range energy or ballistic weapons fill a different niche to long-range missile weapons?  LRM's exist already, and they seem to fill the siege role quite nicely for now.  It would be nice to have some variety, but only if there is a marked difference in how the different weapon types operate at long distance.
Logged

Deshara

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1578
  • Suggestion Writer
    • View Profile
Re: Artillery and Siege Craft
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2016, 06:55:37 PM »

I think siege mode, however it is implemented, is too hard or impossible to balance.  The hard counters you propose (no cancelling, no PD weapons, hard flux building) would make the system suicidal and turn your siege ship into a sitting duck.  I would not want to give such a ship to the AI because it would inevitably turn it on and get itself killed.  Mobility is too important in Starsector.

Well the point is that these ships are made explicitly for fleet action. I'm not suggesting somebody just mod these into the game as is as stand-alone ships, the AI would need to be updated to know how to use them, and they would benefit hugely from escorts
Logged
Quote from: Deshara
I cant be blamed for what I said 5 minutes ago. I was a different person back then