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Author Topic: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive  (Read 58549 times)

Wyvern

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2016, 04:12:51 PM »

it's not a big deal, 2 seconds should be plenty of time to do some damage regardless, and there aren't many ships/loadouts that really focus on a single flux-hungry weapon or a very large number of only low-damage weapons. i just don't understand your reasoning behind using a single weapon for supressing fire, rather than firing all relevant weapons at a reduced rate

There's one big difference, though, and that's how it behaves in a larger fleet situation.  I'd much rather have one weak weapon focus on the phase ship while the rest of my guns are free to shoot at other targets, as opposed to the current situation where you can get all your guns focused on a phased-out ship and totally ignoring a more vulnerable target.
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Sy

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2016, 04:35:29 PM »

There's one big difference, though, and that's how it behaves in a larger fleet situation.  I'd much rather have one weak weapon focus on the phase ship while the rest of my guns are free to shoot at other targets, as opposed to the current situation where you can get all your guns focused on a phased-out ship and totally ignoring a more vulnerable target.
true, but if that one weapon doesn't do much damage by itself even when it does hit the phase ship, it won't fulfill its role of discouraging and/or punishing decloaking. at that point, i think i'd rather just have all my weapons ignore the phase ship to focus on the main target instead.

what could be useful would be HE weapons prioritizing ships with active cloak over ships with active shield.
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Megas

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2016, 04:39:10 PM »

It just occurred to me that if all four phase ships will have the same two built-in hullmods, Phase Field and Delicate Machinery, would it make sense to use another hullmod that combines the two, say... Phase Coil System, that describes and applies the effects of both, and use that instead?
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Dri

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2016, 04:49:24 PM »

Well, it does seem like Hardened Subsystems is gonna be a mandatory hullmod for phase ships. :o
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Megas

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2016, 04:55:07 PM »

For regular battles, Hardened Subsystems is already mandatory for ships that solo as much as they can.

For pursuit, top speed is much more important than peak performance.

I think giving Safety Override for more speed to phase ships with non-missile configurations would be a bad idea.  With cooldown, shot range will be very important (except for missile-only configurations).
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Sy

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2016, 05:10:39 PM »

Harbinger with 3 Heavy Blasters and Safety Override. sounds reasonable!
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Cyan Leader

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2016, 05:21:13 PM »

Shouldn't the 3x as fast thing only happen while you are phased?
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Toxcity

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2016, 05:36:38 PM »

Will there be a visual indicator on the targeted ship for the new ship systems? It can be hard to keep track of everything in larger battles, and your engines being disabled with no indicator could easily be mistaken for something else in a good deal of circumstances.

Also I just noticed the Bullet Time in the Blog Post.  :o
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Sy

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2016, 05:48:40 PM »

Shouldn't the 3x as fast thing only happen while you are phased?
what do you mean? phase ships experience time at 3 times normal rate while their phase cloak is engaged, yes. while they're uncloaked, their time is the same as everybody else's. for ai ships that means their movement and all the time-based stuff (cooldowns, cr timer, flux build-up, etc) become 3 times as fast to an outside observer, whereas when you as player use a phase cloak, the whole battlefield around you slows down to a third of its normal speed (except of course for other currently phased ships).
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Dri

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2016, 05:55:20 PM »

Well, Alex mentioned phase ships have a bad built-in hullmod that speeds up their CR decay so even in normal time they'll drain faster.
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Sy

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2016, 06:06:19 PM »

Well, Alex mentioned phase ships have a bad built-in hullmod that speeds up their CR decay so even in normal time they'll drain faster.
yeah, but only by +50% (rather than +200%) and it affects only the CR drain after peak performance time has already run out (but both PPT and CR drain happen 3 times as fast while cloaked).
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Dri

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2016, 06:15:50 PM »

With these changes can you imagine a phase capital ship? Being able to move 3x faster at will and through other capitals and cruisers! O_O You could park yourself behind a Paragon and unload hell on its engines and a few seconds later you can then move 3x faster to a safe distance to vent...

It must happen! Call it the Deathbringer class!
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Sy

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2016, 06:23:38 PM »

With these changes can you imagine a phase capital ship? Being able to move 3x faster at will and through other capitals and cruisers! O_O You could park yourself behind a Paragon and unload hell on its engines and a few seconds later you can then move 3x faster to a safe distance to vent...

It must happen! Call it the Deathbringer class!
in the other thread, people mentioned capital ships with phase cloaks are pretty much impossible to balance. it's probably gotten even less possible now rather than easier, but i also immediately started fantasizing about a battleship with the ability to triple its speed / slow everyone else to a crawl when i read the blog post. xD
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Alex

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2016, 06:39:06 PM »

It just occurred to me that if all four phase ships will have the same two built-in hullmods, Phase Field and Delicate Machinery, would it make sense to use another hullmod that combines the two, say... Phase Coil System, that describes and applies the effects of both, and use that instead?

It could, yeah. I'm not sure there's a strong reason to go one way or the other here. With two separate hullmods, it perhaps signals the effects more clearly, and opens up the possibility of, say, using the "Delicate Machinery" hullmod on another ship (or not using it on a larger phase ship, where the CR time is a smaller fraction of the peak time and so doesn't strictly need to be nerfed), but, again, either way would probably be alright.

The point isn't to do noteworthy damage; those shots are going to miss anyway. The point is to start doing a bit of damage the second the enemy unphases, and perhaps to discourage them from unphasing in the first place.
that's what i meant, though. the big weapon might waste too much flux without hitting anything, while a single small one in a loadout that uses many guns will not do any noteworthy damage even when it does hit, which defeats the point of supressing fire supposed to punish the enemy for decloaking.

Now that I think about it, that mechanic was put in before the rest of the changes and probably doesn't make as much sense as it once did. Let me change it so that it's based on flux levels instead of picking a specific weapon - this makes more sense, and also means that it'll stop doing that as soon as it starts more dedicated firing at another target.


Re: battleship - well, I won't say never, but it does seem a bit troublesome. Even something as big as the Doom is a bit of a stretch.

But, you know, a capital ship moving at 3x the normal speed isn't necessarily anything to write home about if that base speed is, like, 20 or so. In that case, it'd actually be going slower than it would be with its zero-flux boost.
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Wyvern

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Re: Phase Cloaking - a Deep Dive
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2016, 07:56:22 PM »

But, you know, a capital ship moving at 3x the normal speed isn't necessarily anything to write home about if that base speed is, like, 20 or so. In that case, it'd actually be going slower than it would be with its zero-flux boost.
Until you put a captain with max Helmsmanship on it...
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.
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