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Author Topic: pilum missile tracking  (Read 13835 times)

ArthropodOfDoom

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 05:45:19 PM »

You get thirty missiles a rack, I think the spammability and the ability to hit targets from across the map definitely makes them a tactical asset. Sometimes, murdering people isn't about throwing a heavy weapon in their face. Sometimes its about throwing rocks at them, and while they're shaking their fist at you, your friend jams a knife in their kidneys.
This, a trillion times over. I love spamming Pilums for a little bit to chase my Piranhas, then watching the piranhas smash through PD with bombs and missiles everywhere.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 10:56:11 PM »

Pilums' long range doesn't really work into actual combat because of the missiles' poor speed.

It doesn't need super tracking (although I believe that all missiles should hit a straight moving objects), damage is fine, and I understand that they didn't want to make it super fast so that ships can just sit back and pummel others away from edge of the map.  But, it should be able to reach its effective range in timely manner to actually help out.  Right now the only use I see for pilum is on venture carriers that sit back and have nothing to do but to shoot pilums.  Even then, by the time pilums arrive they end up hitting ship wrecks and nothing else, because everything is dead by the time they arrive ;D

I'm going to try to add more speed to all missiles.  Great thing that this game is so mod friendly.
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MidnightSun

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 12:51:20 AM »

Pilums aren't meant to be an opportunistic missile. That's what Harpoons are for. Pilums are fired at multiple targets in an engagement to force them to redirect their attention/shields/armor elsewhere. And if the target happens to be dead by the time the missiles arrive, their long range allows them to change targets and pressure another enemy ship.

The range of Pilums directly factors into their usefulness, because it often becomes impractical to outdistance a Pilum volley, simply because their fuel lasts them so long. Some otherwise fragile ships equipped with Pilum launchers can actually be quite an asset in battle, projecting their influence to force enemy movements while staying safely out of range.
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Gaizokubanou

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 01:01:59 AM »

Pilums aren't meant to be an opportunistic missile. That's what Harpoons are for. Pilums are fired at multiple targets in an engagement to force them to redirect their attention/shields/armor elsewhere. And if the target happens to be dead by the time the missiles arrive, their long range allows them to change targets and pressure another enemy ship.

The range of Pilums directly factors into their usefulness, because it often becomes impractical to outdistance a Pilum volley, simply because their fuel lasts them so long. Some otherwise fragile ships equipped with Pilum launchers can actually be quite an asset in battle, projecting their influence to force enemy movements while staying safely out of range.

Yeah, the AI fires them as soon as enemy is seen in range.  They still arrive after most of the ships are dead ;D

I'm not talking about opportunistic shots here.  I'm talking about first volley not getting there in time because the vanguard element of my force finishes majority of the fight before pilums get there.

Only way I got pilums to deal damage was for me to pilot a frigate/fast destroyer designed around kinetic damage, park my army in the back and fly out and just take shields down off of slower enemy ships.

Now, if I can get the AI to fire pilums blindly (because missiles still track ships that are hidden beneath fog of war), that would work a bit better.  But as of now, it just doesn't get to the action fast enough.

Edit: Actually, first volley does arrive so that was bit exaggerated on my part, but usually it's just that, one or two volleys.  The impressive missile count of pilums rarely factor into play because of it's long reload time.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 01:19:09 AM by Gaizokubanou »
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arwan

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 02:11:43 AM »

perhaps if pillums were a 2 stage missile.

1st stage was a fast burn into the target area with no tracking.

separation of 1st stage rocket

2nd stage like what we have now minus the range that the 1st staged used.

just an idea.

i always think of the tomahawk missile system when i think of the pilum missiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 02:20:32 AM by arwan »
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

Reapy

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2012, 12:14:36 PM »

Just adding voice here I think they really fit in with fire support.

A direct example was I had a destroyer (i think medusa, the fast energy one ), and fires support condor with LRMs. The fight was wrapping up with us against a larger ship(forget which kind). But the tactical gyst was that the enemy had directional shields and way too much firepower for me to get close enough to hurt it without getting annihilated.

The LRM's coming in also were just not reaching the ship, or just bouncing off the shields generating negligible flux.

But, combining the two useless weapons I had, we were able to take it down.

I parked myself on the opposite side enemy from where the LRM's were coming in in regular intervals.  When the LRM's would come in, the enemy ship would have to start firing PD and change shield directions or risk taking the missiles on the hull. While the PD and shields make the LRM's do next to no damage, actually impacting armor, they will start to hurt.

When it did that, I would close up to my gun range, fire all I could against the exposed hull, then back out again until the next volley.

So individually the LRMs were useless, but combined, using their regular long range harassment, I was able to take down a much larger ship.

I think they have really great tactical uses. They are annoying in that you can avoid them when they are the only threat, but combined with other attacks, they become outright deadly, and hence, the definition of a good fire support weapon.
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Zarcon

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2012, 12:50:04 PM »

perhaps if pillums were a 2 stage missile.

1st stage was a fast burn into the target area with no tracking.

separation of 1st stage rocket

2nd stage like what we have now minus the range that the 1st staged used.

just an idea.

i always think of the tomahawk missile system when i think of the pilum missiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_(missile)


Huh, that'd be cool for sure.  :)  But honestly, I'd rather have the stages reversed, a slow burn to get to the target, and then ZOOM, they get faster and blow up some face.   ;D  lol

All fun aside, I really do like the idea of a 2 stage missile, maybe that is something Alex will add to the game at some point, seems a fun idea that adds a lot of flexibility.
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Dreyven

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 01:32:57 PM »

Huh, that'd be cool for sure.  :)  But honestly, I'd rather have the stages reversed, a slow burn to get to the target, and then ZOOM, they get faster and blow up some face.   ;D  lol

All fun aside, I really do like the idea of a 2 stage missile, maybe that is something Alex will add to the game at some point, seems a fun idea that adds a lot of flexibility.
yeah sure... go ahead
but then you get people complaining about the (obviously) non existing tracking in stage 2 and how hard it is
to hit something with it and how useless it seems....
(YES, i'm talking about you! Sabot SRM)

i mean, i personally love the Sabot SRM but a lot of people don't :P
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arwan

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 01:57:21 PM »

the sabot is from what i gather supposed to be like a kinetic kill missile. as such it has 2 stages. the first stage that is the guidance and the second stage. effectively a gun shooting the extremely dense payload at the target at very high velocities for extreme damage.. similar to a rail gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ix62_oBGtg

sitting on the table in the first part is the ammo for a rail gun. next bit is the batteries to hold all the energy thats going to be released. third part is the actual gun (bolted to the floor) also that gun was from phase 1 of the navies tests to get rail guns on there ships.. they are currently in phase 2.. and the gun looks a lot more like a .... gun ... now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uV1SbEuzFU

the round travels so fast and creates so much friction (at the moment to keep the projectile from going well outside of the test area) that it literally sets the air on fire. there is no gunpowder or any other explosive used in a rail gun.
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

Zarcon

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 02:09:13 PM »

yeah sure... go ahead
but then you get people complaining about the (obviously) non existing tracking in stage 2 and how hard it is
to hit something with it and how useless it seems....
(YES, i'm talking about you! Sabot SRM)

i mean, i personally love the Sabot SRM but a lot of people don't :P

Oh, well now I feel a little silly, I guess the Sabot is already a two stage missile, ha ha!  :)  Doh!  I'm gonna go check out its stats tonight and make a missile like the one I was considering, thanks for the heads up Dreyven, I was being a little dense there, lol!   ;D
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There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Flare

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 02:39:30 PM »

the sabot is from what i gather supposed to be like a kinetic kill missile. as such it has 2 stages. the first stage that is the guidance and the second stage. effectively a gun shooting the extremely dense payload at the target at very high velocities for extreme damage.. similar to a rail gun. ...

An explosive powered round would also work I think.
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Quote from: Thana
Quote from: Alex

The battle station is not completely operational, shall we say.

"Now witness the firepower of this thoroughly buggy and unoperational batt... Oh, hell, you know what? Just ignore the battle station, okay?"

Gaizokubanou

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 03:01:57 PM »

the sabot is from what i gather supposed to be like a kinetic kill missile. as such it has 2 stages. the first stage that is the guidance and the second stage. effectively a gun shooting the extremely dense payload at the target at very high velocities for extreme damage.. similar to a rail gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ix62_oBGtg

sitting on the table in the first part is the ammo for a rail gun. next bit is the batteries to hold all the energy thats going to be released. third part is the actual gun (bolted to the floor) also that gun was from phase 1 of the navies tests to get rail guns on there ships.. they are currently in phase 2.. and the gun looks a lot more like a .... gun ... now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uV1SbEuzFU

the round travels so fast and creates so much friction (at the moment to keep the projectile from going well outside of the test area) that it literally sets the air on fire. there is no gunpowder or any other explosive used in a rail gun.


Because this game already have a weapon designated as railgun, which shoots out blue projectiles, I think sabot missile uses something else for that extra propulsion in its second stage.
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Flare

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 03:14:12 PM »

I think the railgun he's talking about is one in which it is so powerful that the whole mechanism in the missile basically blows itself up accelerating the round. Putting such a mechanism in a ship obviously wouldn't be such a good idea, this way you can both keep the power of such a shot, AND keep your ship from exploding.
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Quote from: Thana
Quote from: Alex

The battle station is not completely operational, shall we say.

"Now witness the firepower of this thoroughly buggy and unoperational batt... Oh, hell, you know what? Just ignore the battle station, okay?"

arwan

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 03:24:34 PM »


Because this game already have a weapon designated as railgun, which shoots out blue projectiles, I think sabot missile uses something else for that extra propulsion in its second stage.

was not using the games rail gun for comparison so i fail to see the relevance of it not looking the same being a basis of it being "something else". (it dosent look the same in the game there for it can not possibly be a rail gun and make sense)

since this is a game certain liberties are taken for the sake of fun and art. and as such things in the game will not look like what they would look like in real life.

what i was trying to do was draw a comparison to a potential real world mechanism for people to possibly understand what is going on with the second stage of the in game SRM.

the way in which it happens (rail gun, explosive, some other device) does not matter so much as the final product or outcome is the same. the missile is shooting a non guided projectile.

i had a feeling a few people were not understanding why a seemingly guided missile would all of a sudden speed up and lose all its guidance (also possibly missing the fact that it was a second stage). so i posted a scenario that would explain in such a way as to be understandable the reasons the missile acts the way it does.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 03:27:34 PM by arwan »
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Alex
You won't be able to refit fighters and bombers at all. They're designed/balanced around having a particular set of weapons and would be very broken if you could change it. Which ones you pick for your fleet -out of quite a few that are available- is the choice here, not how they're outfitted.

Gaizokubanou

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Re: pilum missile tracking
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2012, 05:09:40 PM »

was not using the games rail gun for comparison so i fail to see the relevance of it not looking the same being a basis of it being "something else". (it dosent look the same in the game there for it can not possibly be a rail gun and make sense)

Because this game follows pretty straight forward visual effects to identify weapon types, a weapon with different visuals have good probability of being different.

And even the game codex describe the Sabot SRM's second stage as "ignites the propulsion", which doesn't even come close to how a railgun would work.  There is plenty of room for artistic license to claim that this is how railgun tech work in this universe, but since they actually described railgun tech in another weapon's codex pretty accurately, it's just more likely that Sabot SRM doesn't use railgun.  It probably uses a much more traditional chemical energy propellant that has to be ignited.

It would be interesting if it actually uses a ignitable chemical to power the railgun though...

Quote
the way in which it happens (rail gun, explosive, some other device) does not matter so much as the final product or outcome is the same. the missile is shooting a non guided projectile.

I agree, I was just nitpicking on technicality ;)
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