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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?  (Read 10084 times)

Wyvern

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2015, 10:33:54 PM »

Anyhow, I totally approve of the Safety Overrides hull mod... except that, frankly, I can't see a single reason not to take it thus far, because the bad parts don't outweigh the good.
Range.  Range is the big one.  Higher active time helps, too.  SO on frigates is generally good... except for phase frigates, which don't really need the extra vent speed, or any frigates that you want to use in a larger battle.  SO on destroyers varies; it's a significant downgrade to beam builds or ships using HVDs and Maulers.  SO on cruisers is (in my experience) just bad; I hear some people have gotten it to work, but I haven't.

Early game, I put SO on most things.  Mid to late game, it's reserved for a few specific pursuit builds, and maybe a heavy blaster Medusa.

Augmented Engines / Unstable Injector, on the other hand... One of those two goes on every combat ship.  Augmented Engines for larger ships that need the burn speed; unstable injector for everything else.  But then, I like speed; yes, they're relatively potent hull mods, but I'd still be using them even if they had half their effect and weren't really worth the OP.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2015, 11:18:06 PM »

I put Augmented Engines only on ships that need it to get to burn 9. So my Paragon, and that's it. Unstable Injector goes on ships that are going to be chasing, running away, or that want to get behind the enemy, so my Tempests, Shades, and Civilian ships. My non-Paragon direct combat ships, Medusas and Wolves, I find don't actually need either. They're already mobile enough. I only put Safety Overrides on earlygame Lashers, before I can feasibly go full high-tech. The PPT decrease is just too severe on frigates, the major strength of most of my ship designs is how much they outrange the enemy so SO would actually make them worse, and you can't put SO on capitals or civilian ships. Additionally, the AI really can't handle close-range ships well at all. Long-range bombardment ships it's pretty good with, but it has no idea when it should charge in or stay back with e.g. a 3x Antimatter Blaster Shade or a melee Enforcer. SO is for player piloted ships only, I find.

The increased OP needs to stay in one form or another, whether it gets built into the ship or blueprint or whatever. When I go back to play the missions, I can't believe how restricted the builds you can make are. Very high OP weapons, like Tachyon Lances, Light Needlers, etc. would just never see play if you didn't have the extra OP.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 11:28:42 PM by ANGRYABOUTELVES »
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TrashMan

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2015, 02:51:39 AM »

Bonuses stack. Careful not to make the play too OP.


But some mods are really vastly superior to others. Some are utterly useless (flux shunt or whatever it's called. Why bother with that if I can just stick more vents and got a skill that doubles the number of vents I can install?)

Maybe the number of capacitors/vents should be more limited?
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TaLaR

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2015, 03:49:58 AM »

But some mods are really vastly superior to others. Some are utterly useless (flux shunt or whatever it's called. Why bother with that if I can just stick more vents and got a skill that doubles the number of vents I can install?)

Maybe the number of capacitors/vents should be more limited?

These 2 flux cap/vent hullmods were mostly useless even before making doubled caps/vents possible, now they are completely obsolete.
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Plantissue

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2015, 05:04:27 AM »

I put unstable injector on everything, and augmented engines when I have the skill level and enough ships that pirate fleets run away from you since augmented engines are basically a better version of unstable injector at that stage of the game. being able to outspeed the opposing ships, whether for pursuit or retreat is just so important, it's basically the battlefield equivalent of burn speed. As small difference is the difference of life and death, so even if it gave say half the difference in speed, as long as it is enough to outspeed the same ship of that speed, it is good enough. Really though, I think it is more of a case that because speed is so important, the speeds of ships within the same class should be placed closer together. It's kind of ridiculous that the frigate class ships have base speeds ranging from 100 to 180. They really need to be tighter together.
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Megas

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2015, 05:50:13 AM »

Quote
A Pirate (D) Kite, for example, is worth maybe 100 credits; it's a throwaway hull good for laughs in a fight, where it's only utility is that it might get off some AI-annoying chaff missiles before dying, if you give it a Timid pilot (seriously, try it with a half-dozen of them, it's amusing).
Actually, pirate Kite is very useful for one thing: suicide exploit!  Pirate Kite is probably the cheapest ship in the game, and if I have no money, I store all except the Pirate Kite, scuttle it, respawn as a more valuable Lasher or Wolf, and get 2,000 credits.  Not always spawning in Corvus now makes this a bit tricky.
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Megas

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Re: Skill Revamp: What to do with bonus Ordnance Points?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2015, 06:51:05 AM »

Re: Safety Override
I use it on the following ships:
* Those whose primary guns have 450 range or less (e.g., machine guns, chainguns)
* Dedicated pursuit frigates slower than a Tempest.
* Fast combat ships without too much OP used as improvised freighters (they are faster and stealthier than civilians).

Until I acquired enough Tempests, I put SO on an Afflictor and used it as a poor-man's Tempest.  I needed speed to catch-up to fleeing interceptors and frigates.

Otherwise, downsides of Safety Override are too much.
* Severe range and peak performance reduction.
* Cannot dissipate flux as fast as a venting ship with both Dedicated Conduits perk and Resistant Flux Conduits hullmod.
* Cannot vent-cancel ship systems.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 07:20:23 AM by Megas »
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