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[intothewildblueyonder]

the direction armor would be useful for making a mission in this mod http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=969.0
especially if someone designed a ship or battle-station but forgot to put better shielding on the exhaust...

[Deathven]

I am not afraid of depth, just too much stuff to manage. I want to explore and fight and make money. Not manage my ships all the time.

But I am fine with adding some micro here and there. There's plenty of room currently. Just scared of the extreme.  

Agreed. The game is a little overwhelming when you start playing it. I mean, I didn't even know/noticed that you can tell how damaged your ship is by the green silhouette mentioned by Iscariot.

[intothewildblueyonder]

WARNING THIS NEEDS TO BE TESTED FURTHER
I think I just figured out how to have locational armor. While messing around with redbulls ship editor I realized that you could do all sorts of things with the bounding; making weird shapes with it, going over the same area twice.

So recently I was trying to make a weak point on a ship and I was messing around with the boundings. My line of thought was since the armor calculation is based on surrounding armor why don't I just make a skinny section that has very little armor nearby. What I ended up doing, while experimenting, was make overlapping bounds. What this seems to have done is actually make a strong point. I did the opposite and it seems to be a weak point. I do think this has something to do with the armor-calc, however I am not sure if this really works. If anyone else wants to see if they can reproduce this let me know

WARNING THIS NEEDS TO BE TESTED FURTHER

[Deathven]

WARNING THIS NEEDS TO BE TESTED FURTHER
I think I just figured out how to have locational armor. While messing around with redbulls ship editor I realized that you could do all sorts of things with the bounding; making weird shapes with it, going over the same area twice.

So recently I was trying to make a weak point on a ship and I was messing around with the boundings. My line of thought was since the armor calculation is based on surrounding armor why don't I just make a skinny section that has very little armor nearby. What I ended up doing, while experimenting, was make overlapping bounds. What this seems to have done is actually make a strong point. I did the opposite and it seems to be a weak point. I do think this has something to do with the armor-calc, however I am not sure if this really works. If anyone else wants to see if they can reproduce this let me know

WARNING THIS NEEDS TO BE TESTED FURTHER

Interesting....

[Upgradecap]

the direction armor would be useful for making a mission in this mod http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=969.0
especially if someone designed a ship or battle-station but forgot to put better shielding on the exhaust...

I wonder who that would be....

[TJJ]

As the saying goes, don't like it, don't use it.
All I'm saying is that it's completely optional.

Thing is... this doesn't work in a real environment
if you implement it... people will feel forced to use it...
if you balance the game around it, people who don't do it will find it too difficult
if you balance the game around not doing it, people who do it find the game too easy

also... currently it is a value of how robust the material on the outside of the hull is

^ This ^

Anyone who has played SOTS: Born of Blood will know all about ancillary features that massively increase micro (organising trade routes still gives me nightmares!).
Yes the mechanic is entirely optional, but if you ignore it you're significantly disadvantaged.

Same goes for the tedious dodge mechanic in Unreal Tournament 2003 onwards; it's awkward, causes finger ache, and while you can play without it...you'll get murdered.

[TJJ]

Having said that.... the idea of a ship designed for ramming (with a heavily armoured prow) appeals to me.

[stardidi]

if the standard for ship's armor is half decent, i don't think not managing your armor will be a big issue.
but if you wanted say a heavily armored front for a bomber like frigate, you could do that.
or if you wanted a very lightly armored ship for chasing retreaters that would be possible too.

i think it would a lot of depth without the need to micro manage (too much) IF the standard is well balanced.

[maqzek]

As the saying goes, don't like it, don't use it.
All I'm saying is that it's completely optional.

Thing is... this doesn't work in a real environment
if you implement it... people will feel forced to use it...
if you balance the game around it, people who don't do it will find it too difficult
if you balance the game around not doing it, people who do it find the game too easy

also... currently it is a value of how robust the material on the outside of the hull is

^ This ^

Anyone who has played SOTS: Born of Blood will know all about ancillary features that massively increase micro (organising trade routes still gives me nightmares!).
Yes the mechanic is entirely optional, but if you ignore it you're significantly disadvantaged.

Same goes for the tedious dodge mechanic in Unreal Tournament 2003 onwards; it's awkward, causes finger ache, and while you can play without it...you'll get murdered.

You can say the same about anything complex. I can owned if I don't use any fleet orders. Should I tell everyone that this game sucks? Or that they should remove fleet orders system?

Obviously game will get complex, but it's already complex and people still play it. They can lower the difficulty, they can play random missions. Basically, they are playing it how they want. If the feature is well balanced and documented, it's not a big deal if someone won't use it efficiently. Not everyone is making an ideal fleet composition covering any situation for any encounter.

[Flare]

You can say the same about anything complex. I can owned if I don't use any fleet orders. Should I tell everyone that this game sucks? Or that they should remove fleet orders system?

Obviously game will get complex, but it's already complex and people still play it. They can lower the difficulty, they can play random missions. Basically, they are playing it how they want. If the feature is well balanced and documented, it's not a big deal if someone won't use it efficiently. Not everyone is making an ideal fleet composition covering any situation for any encounter.

There is a difference between complexity and depth, and micromanagement. Take MOO3 for example, it's easy to imagine a situation where you have to macro like crazy and yet not contain much depth at all. SotS being the example raised. There's really only one way to manage trade routes well in that game, but you're stuck doing things that a computer should be doing.

Likewise in MoO 3. Most of the player time during the end game is spent managing all the planets of which a computer could have been told to do, and it would seem many people would have liked the computer to do it if the response to that part of the game is anything to go by.

This isn't about whether or not the developer should make the game complex or not, but whether it would be justified or not to implement automation where player input can take place. Take into consideration that there's a fair bit of automation in place already. Unlike an RTS, the AI in this is is quite complex, far more complex than in games like starcraft or SPAZ at the individual level of the unit. For example, you can't manually kite an opponent like in starcraft with a vulture, but the AI in this game already does that for you, and as often the case done against you as well. This is a good thing when it is justified, and given that the game is aimed at putting your character as a character who has to command his fleet but more importantly command his ship as well, I think it is justified.

[Deathven]

Good god! Is that warhammer I see?

[TJJ]

Good god! Is that warhammer I see?

That it is.... and a Battlefleet Gothic mod for this game would be awesome 

[lordgiza]

I reckon a good idea would be to have pre-made ship modules. Certain ships had hardpoints where you could add a module you bought. They would be things like an armor plate, an extra generator, living quarters, engines and basically all the main parts of a ships. These modules can also be connected to themselves to build an entire ship if you can get enough. Just think of the designs you could make. Gigantic carriers being able to carry hundreds of fighters and being able to keep up with the fleet with so many engines (the cost would be amazing though but overall fleet cost per hangar space is reduced.). Gigantic fire support platforms armed with 15+ Tachyon lances. Things like this. Also there should be a system in place to counter the player in every fleet in the game "levels" to you. This will make the game longer lasting. The calculations will not only be done on fleet points but separately based on your fleet configuration. Enemies will start using ships and tactics to counter your fleet. This makes you adapt to the game and keeps the difficulty up the entire game.

[Upgradecap]

lordgiza, what you just said makes sense. That the enemy would keep themselves on the same playinglevel as the player is genious. Though i'm not really sure about constructing your own ship.

[lordgiza]

lordgiza, what you just said makes sense. That the enemy would keep themselves on the same playinglevel as the player is genious. Though i'm not really sure about constructing your own ship.

The construct your own ship is completely optional since the resources it will take is a sizable amount, to make a fully functional Paragon-esque cap ship it will cost about three times as much, but it will overall cost less fleet points and you could make very specialized ships for certain roles that the vanilla ships don't fill. Such as an extremely heavy freighter with massive armor or shield and many engines to break through blockades and sell smuggled goods.