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[clown_hand]

I posted this on the subreddit, and now I'm posting this here to know the opinons of the men of culture.

I've seem some people saying the Conquest is a hit and run capital, that can't hold its own against Capitals with similar OP cost like the Onslaught or Legion. This is the kind of meme opinion that falls apart when you analyze it, and this post I will give my two cents. If you have a different opinion I would like to hear your opinion or why you like other capitals more.

Before we begin, I must acknowledge that the Paragon is the better ship. Yes, a min-maxed Conquest piloted by the player can defeat a Paragon 1vs1, but this generally isn't what happens on a real battle. Despite that, we will see that the Conquest punches above its weight if you take the deployment cost in consideration.

What does it mean to be a hit and run ship? I take it to mean that it has speed to attack and go back, but not the defensive capabilities for an extended fight. The primary example of the hit and run capital is the Odyssey, that is very fast, has the plasma burn special skill, but  has bad armor for a capital, and depends on its shields to survive. Does any of that apply to the Conquest? Time to info-dump.

ship	armor	max flux	flux dissipation	max speed
Conquest	1200	20000	1200	45
Onslaught	1750	17000	600	25
Legion	1500	12000	500	30
Odissey	1000	15000	1000	70
Paragon	1500	25000	1250	30

With 45 max speed it can’t escape any capital ship except the Paragon, as the Onslaught and Legion WILL burn drive into it if it is in a weak spot. Hell, it can be outrun by most cruisers, so if it gets ganged trying to hit and run ahead of the formation it is dead. This makes it not the hit and run god it is portrayed at.

So what are the strengths of the Conquest? Its armor is only better than the Odyssey’s, but it has more max flux than any other capital except the Paragon, and it has double the flux dissipation of the Onslaught/Legion. In fact, with the front shield hullmod and the 10% hard flux dissipation skill it can hold up fine against anything but high level stations.

It has 2 medium missile slots and 2 large missile slots (no other capital has two large missile slots). Equipping it with a kinetic large ballistic and 2x sabot missiles pods makes it capable of instantly disabling shields most of the time. If you also equip 2x mirvs in the large missile mounts it can immediately punish hard. The two large ballistics in each side make flanking it hard, and its special skill helps when it needs to turn fast to face unexpected threats, making it safer than the Onslaught and the Legion. It has very high offensive potential and reliability.

In short, the Conquest is best used not to try mlg 360 noscopes, but as a rock for your attack, that enemies can’t get get close to without getting smoked in seconds. All that at 40 deployment points.

[Thaago]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

For top speed, you don't seem to be taking into account the maneuvering jets? They don't make the ship fast, but they make them a lot more, well, maneuverable and overall speedy than the battleships.

For flux, you may want to look at the shield efficiency stat. Conquest with hardened shields is acceptable but I wouldn't call it a rock. When comparing the ships its also best to add 50 vents worth to each of them for a better comparison, as almost every decent capital fit has maxed vents. 1700 vs 1100 (Conq vs Onsl) is definitely far in the Conquests favor, but its misleading to call is 2:1

[SafariJohn]

Maneuvering Jets gives Conquest an average top speed of 66-70.

I agree calling Conquest's typical combat style "hit-and-run" is misleading. The Conquest follows the main Midline doctrine of engaging until high on flux, then using maneuvering jets and/or high base speed to pull out of range or behind allies to vent. Like Roman testudo formations swapping out their front-row soldiers mid-battle. Why don't we have a catchy name for that yet?

[Mach56]

(no other capital has two large missile slots)

I believe you are forgetting about the XIV Legion, that has 2 large missiles as well.

Edit: And the Atlas Mk. II.
The Astral does as well, but that's a carrier.

[Retry]

Astral, XIV Legion, Conquest, and Atlas II all have 2x missile mounts.  Prom II, Onslaught & XIV, standard Legion, Odyssey, and Paragon do not.

So yes, other than 40% of the combat-oriented capital ships in Vanilla's roster, there are no other twin Large Missile ships in the game.

[wei270]

while altas II can fit two large missile mount, its limited op means it usually woudn't, and XIV legion is not a reliable find, so i would said only astral and conquest is the two that can use two large missile mount.

[FooF]

All these threads about the Conquest lead me to believe that it's in an ideal spot, actually. If there's people arguing over how best to use it, it means it has versatility and an "open" playstyle.

To the OP: the Conquest is squarely in a "battlecruiser" role where it hits harder than anything that can catch it and can outrun anything it can't outgun. I wouldn't call it a hit-and-run playstyle: that is a tactical consideration. Instead, think of its battlecruiser role as more of a strategic consideration. You choose not to deploy something like a Conquest against a Star Fortress because that is a straight-up fight where the defender has more firepower/range than the aggressor. It can still work, of course, but that's not an ideal use for a battlecruiser. If it can't outmaneuver its target, you're fitting a square peg in a round hole. In contrast, the Onslaught, despite many of its other flaws, it better suited for fighting a station than the Conquest. It has the armor to tank hits, has a lot of flux-free damage in its missiles and can close the range gap quickly. The Conquest can get in fairly quickly (but not as fast) but it has to take a lot of hits on its inefficient shields or take hits on armor that its not too keen on taking.

Of course, different loadouts can make the Conquest more of a sniper or station-killer but you have to sacrifice a lot of other utility to create that niche. I don't typically use Conquests to tackle Paragons, for example. I can do it but that's because I'm a gosh-darn great pilot (I'm not ) but I'd prefer not to. That's just the wrong tool for the job. However, if I'm fighting Cruisers or an Onslaught that I can outmaneuver, the Conquest is one of the best tools in my toolbox. The problem people run into is that when all they have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail...

[sector_terror]

Correct me if I'm wrong: but does anyone actually claim the conquest is hit and run at all? I've lurked for a while and most people seem to agree not only is the conquest is sub-par compared to the paragon and the like, but isn't the classic hit and run ship the odyssey is. am I jsut an idiot because this is new information.

Also, just a quick comment to add. Burn drives are prone to over-commiting and are difficult to use with any kind of mobility. sure it has velocity but its monodirectional and can't be interrupted at all. I routinely find that anytime one of the big boys does that I just sidestep them or outlast their burn drive.

[Megas]

Conquest with Gauss, beams, and MIRV is that long-range sniper or fighting game zone character like Dhalsim.  It tries to keep its distance, but it does not play like hit-and-run because it simply outranges anything that is not a carrier or a battlestation (or a beam Paragon optimized for shot range).  If anything, long-range Conquest plays a bit like a carrier.  Typical hit-and-run ships (like many high-tech) have poor shot range.  They rush in with their knives into a gunfight, hope to shank the enemy, run away when flux goes high, and repeat.  Conquest skips the rushing part, it just snipes away.

Conquest with Storm Needlers and Mortars is the SO-like melee fighter, with 700 range weapons instead of 450 range weapons.

Conquest with 800-900 range weapons is a simple mid-range brawler roughly on par with Onslaught.

[Golde]

Why run when you can hit and hit?

I don't think y'all realize but even without any special sauce and using only 900 range weapons + itu, it STILL outranges just about anything else the game can throw at it OR straight up outpound it with its two large balls dangling off each side.

In the rare case that you managed to find an onslaught that squeezed out whatever little op left on it for an ITU, flux distributor and 3 large weapons or a pure beam paragon, do you start to actually lose some of the obscene advantages you have.

Superior range and superior mobility that can dictate engagements are the two utmost important stats in the game. And when you have both, nothing of imposing substance can either reach you or escape from you.

the bad flux/damage shield stat is there to merely offset the incredible base flux capacity that is often overlooked.

The damage to overload a conquest is only like 750 short of that to overload an Odyssey, yet I don't see anyone complaining about the Odyssey's shields being fragile.

edit: its

[Megas]

Capitals become increasing common up to the endgame.  Many endgame fleets are mostly capitals and cruisers, except Ordos, which have more smaller ships backed by the killer overpowered Radiants instead.

Superior range and mobility is great in a duel.  Unfortunately, AI does not take full advantage of it in a fight as a fleet.

Odyssey is flimsy too, and needs Hardened Shields just as badly as Conquest.  Plasma Odyssey probably wants max caps (and vents) too to fire plasma for a good while.

[Golde]

everything fun loses their shine by the time you get to capital only gameplay. It'll be time to start another playthrough.

[Megas]

everything fun loses their shine by the time you get to capital only gameplay. It'll be time to start another playthrough.

For me, endgame is the best part of the game because I have all of the cool toys and my fleet is powerful.  It is a bit annoying that capitals dominate gameplay at that point, but I consider the lack of cool toys and a powerful fleet to crush the enemy before the end a more obnoxious grind.  Thus, I tend to spend more time playing the endgame than I do getting there in the saves I play.  When starting a new game, I cannot wait until I reach the end because I do not find pre-endgame play very fun (because of less and/or weaker gear, and fewer skills), and the Apogee start is an automatic pick.