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[Shogouki]

I have a question about the Hellfire MIRV missile weapons.  I noticed that they have a relatively short range of 1000 units but they seem to be effective at more than twice that range.  Is the listed range on the weapons incorrect?

Hello again Shogouki, that is more for the Hiver thread but since you are a frequent flyer I'll allow it   Essentially the AI will not shoot missiles until the target is at that range. They are guided up to their stated range but it is not as if they disappear or self immolate once it is reached. Once that certain range is reached they cease being guided but continue in the last guided direction until they either hit something or fly off in the distance.

I'm pretty sure the Hellfire MIRVs are CFT weapons.  They're listed in-game as being from CFT and I douple checked the weapons files in the CFT folder and they are there.  And about the range I mean they don't appear to be acting like normal missiles though.  Most missiles are still active for a bit after surpassing their max range but they often don't keep tracking and sometimes don't detonate on impact after that.  For the Hellfire MIRV launchers (I've tried the small, medium and large ones) the missiles continue waaay past the designated range and continue to track and deploy their independent warheads much more than twice as far as their max range.  I'm not saying that they aren't working as intended, just wondering if the listed range is wrong because they function completely so much farther than the range listed I thought they were bugged at first.

[Dazs]

I have a question about the Hellfire MIRV missile weapons.  I noticed that they have a relatively short range of 1000 units but they seem to be effective at more than twice that range.  Is the listed range on the weapons incorrect?

Hello again Shogouki, that is more for the Hiver thread but since you are a frequent flyer I'll allow it   Essentially the AI will not shoot missiles until the target is at that range. They are guided up to their stated range but it is not as if they disappear or self immolate once it is reached. Once that certain range is reached they cease being guided but continue in the last guided direction until they either hit something or fly off in the distance.

I'm pretty sure the Hellfire MIRVs are CFT weapons.  They're listed in-game as being from CFT and I douple checked the weapons files in the CFT folder and they are there. 

Oops that is my mistake sorry. I am working on a Hiver update and have that mod on my mind. I should have said the comment belongs in the CFT forum. 

And about the range I mean they don't appear to be acting like normal missiles though.  Most missiles are still active for a bit after surpassing their max range but they often don't keep tracking and sometimes don't detonate on impact after that.  For the Hellfire MIRV launchers (I've tried the small, medium and large ones) the missiles continue waaay past the designated range and continue to track and deploy their independent warheads much more than twice as far as their max range.  I'm not saying that they aren't working as intended, just wondering if the listed range is wrong because they function completely so much farther than the range listed I thought they were bugged at first.

You are probably correct, lord knows I have oopsies in my mods. CFT is next line after Hiver so I will remember to check this forum when I start it and add your comments to the to-do list for that mod.

[Dazs]

v0.9 released today - Save game compatible
   -Added dock needed requirements for the following logistics hull mods: Cargo Carver, Cargo Pods, Internal Tank, External Tank, Auxiliary Tank, Auxiliary Cargo
   -Added a new category listing (CJHML) and UI tag (Logistics+) for the hull mods that now require a dock - Having their own tab makes them easily identifiable when refitting
   -Added Exploration Refit and Booster Rockets to the CJHML tab as they already require a dock
   -Added a new hull mod, Arsenal Lockers, that adds 10 ground support by reducing crew berthing by 20% - The reduction in ability to carry marines balances the support - Let me know your opinion
      -TY CV514 for the ideas for the above changes
   -Added a new hull mod, Ballistic Integration, that reduces the OP of large ballistic weapons by 5 through removing 10% of a ship's hull and armor
   -Added a new hull mod, Energy Integration, that reduces the OP of large energy and beam weapons by 5 through removing 10% of a ship's hull and armor
   -Added a new hull mod, Missile Integration, that reduces the OP of large missile weapons by 5 through removing 10% of a ship's hull and armor
      -TY Tesser for the donated icons for all the new hull mods
   -Updated the image on the forum OP and discord post with the new hull mods   

I had some concerns about the balance of these new hull mods as they were uncharted territory for me. I *think* I balanced them correctly but IDK, I feel maybe I overcorrected. I set the cost for them at 0 OP since they reduce op costs and it did not make sense to me to have it cost op to install. I balanced that with the 10% hull and armor loss figuring that 5 OP for each weapon slot would be not so good with a smaller ship with one mount but balanced for a capital with multiple mounts. Also I struggled with the crew berthing loss for an individual ship for a fleet wide ground support bonus.

I am thankful for the suggestions I receive and look forward to more but some feedback on this new addition of hull mods would be appreciated as well.
Enjoy!

[Seamus Donohue]

-Added a new hull mod, Arsenal Lockers, that adds 10 ground support by reducing crew berthing by 20% - The reduction in ability to carry marines balances the support - Let me know your opinion

10 marines worth of ground support?  ...and it removes 20% of the crew capacity?  That sounds like it would only be worthwhile for small frigates.   

[Resetium]

This mod's "Open Forum/Nexus Page" button in LunaLib's update checker links to Junk Yard Dogs rather than this page.

[Dazs]

-Added a new hull mod, Arsenal Lockers, that adds 10 ground support by reducing crew berthing by 20% - The reduction in ability to carry marines balances the support - Let me know your opinion

10 marines worth of ground support?  ...and it removes 20% of the crew capacity?  That sounds like it would only be worthwhile for small frigates.   

Hello there Seamus Donohue, thank you for weighing in. I wanted to give it some balance so it would not be abused but yea I think I overcorrected. I thought a bit before responding and I think I may have a solution. What if I re-wrote the code to be a scale per ship size rather then a straight 20% for all? Something like 20/15/10/5 I think would be a more fair balance. Let me know what you think and I can put out a patch.

This mod's "Open Forum/Nexus Page" button in LunaLib's update checker links to Junk Yard Dogs rather than this page.

Good morning Resetium. Wow what a long standing oopsie on my part, thank you for posting this. Since this mod started by me taking all of the hull mods out of JYD, IDK I guess I just did not notice that I still had JYD's page number in the version checker. I am blind to that via LunaLib because I always have the most up to date version on all my mods installed. Ugh that one went undiagnosed for over a year, I will certainly have an update for that soon.

Thank you both for the comments, it really does make me realize I can be blind to things sometimes. I'll have an update out today addressing both issues. I am heading out so it'll be a little while until I can get to it so if anyone else has anything, I will consider it as well. I figure I'll be back at my computer in 3-4 hours and have a quick fix out by then.

[Dazs]

v0.9.1 released today - A quick hotfix to address some concerns from 9.0 - Save game compatible
   -Fixed an oopsie with the version checker mistakenly having JYD's forum page - TY Resetium for letting me know
   -Changed the crew adjustment on Arsenal Lockers from a flat 20% to a scaling by ship size 20/15/10/5 - TY Seamus Donohue for pointing out that 20% was a bit outrageous for any size above frigate

Thank you both for your input. It is the players like yourselves who do so that make my mods so much better than I could do alone and I truly appreciate the help.

[Seamus Donohue]

-Added a new hull mod, Arsenal Lockers, that adds 10 ground support by reducing crew berthing by 20% - The reduction in ability to carry marines balances the support - Let me know your opinion

10 marines worth of ground support?  ...and it removes 20% of the crew capacity?  That sounds like it would only be worthwhile for small frigates.   

Hello there Seamus Donohue, thank you for weighing in. I wanted to give it some balance so it would not be abused but yea I think I overcorrected. I thought a bit before responding and I think I may have a solution. What if I re-wrote the code to be a scale per ship size rather then a straight 20% for all? Something like 20/15/10/5 I think would be a more fair balance. Let me know what you think and I can put out a patch.

I apologize for the delay.  I didn't check back on this thread until now.

I'm assuming that this is being balanced against vanilla Starsector.  I haven't played straight vanilla in some time, but as I recall, the player can only have 30 ships before severe penalties start kicking in.  If every ship in the fleet has Arsenal Lockers, then the total increase is only 300 marines worth of ground support.  Comparing this to "100 marines worth on a single Valkyrie" or "200 marines worth on a single Phantom" leaves me a little confused as to what your intended use case is for Arsenal Lockers.  Can you elaborate on this, please?

If the overall intent is "the player can save money on Marines payroll, but has to sacrifice crew carrying capacity for it and this ship won't outperform a Valkyrie or Phantom anyway", then my suggestion would be: "Increases ground support by 10/20/30/60 but removes berthing for 20/40/60/120 crew, depending on hull size."  Feel free to scale the individual numbers as you see fit depending on the use cases that you're anticipating.

Thank you for this mod, by the way! 

[Dazs]

-Added a new hull mod, Arsenal Lockers, that adds 10 ground support by reducing crew berthing by 20% - The reduction in ability to carry marines balances the support - Let me know your opinion

10 marines worth of ground support?  ...and it removes 20% of the crew capacity?  That sounds like it would only be worthwhile for small frigates.   

Hello there Seamus Donohue, thank you for weighing in. I wanted to give it some balance so it would not be abused but yea I think I overcorrected. I thought a bit before responding and I think I may have a solution. What if I re-wrote the code to be a scale per ship size rather then a straight 20% for all? Something like 20/15/10/5 I think would be a more fair balance. Let me know what you think and I can put out a patch.

I apologize for the delay.  I didn't check back on this thread until now.

I'm assuming that this is being balanced against vanilla Starsector.  I haven't played straight vanilla in some time, but as I recall, the player can only have 30 ships before severe penalties start kicking in.  If every ship in the fleet has Arsenal Lockers, then the total increase is only 300 marines worth of ground support.  Comparing this to "100 marines worth on a single Valkyrie" or "200 marines worth on a single Phantom" leaves me a little confused as to what your intended use case is for Arsenal Lockers.  Can you elaborate on this, please?

If the overall intent is "the player can save money on Marines payroll, but has to sacrifice crew carrying capacity for it and this ship won't outperform a Valkyrie or Phantom anyway", then my suggestion would be: "Increases ground support by 10/20/30/60 but removes berthing for 20/40/60/120 crew, depending on hull size."  Feel free to scale the individual numbers as you see fit depending on the use cases that you're anticipating.

Yes the goal is to use this hull mod to carry less marines to save on monthly credits and replacement costs at the cost of OP. I originally had it at 5 ground support but I felt 10 was more fitting for the amount of crew space. I honestly did not think some player would put it on all their ships when I calculated that but yea I guess it can be a bit OP.

Thank you for this mod, by the way! 

I appreciate the kind word, thank you!

I do appreciate the follow-up but IDK, like I stated earlier, working with ground support modification is uncharted territory for me. I was going to wait until I heard back from you before I changed it but Resetium's error report sort of made me want to get that fixed ASAP so I went with what I had proposed. I can always revisit it later with your suggestion in mind if players think it is out of hand as it currently is. I am currently working on much needed JYD sprite update atm so I'll let this mod sit and see what players think and finish that JYD update up before I get back to CJHM.

[Seamus Donohue]

Yes the goal is to use this hull mod to carry less marines to save on monthly credits and replacement costs at the cost of OP. I originally had it at 5 ground support but I felt 10 was more fitting for the amount of crew space. I honestly did not think some player would put it on all their ships when I calculated that but yea I guess it can be a bit OP.

...overpowered?    30 ships with Arsenal Lockers (300) are outdone by 2 Phantoms (400).  I'd actually call that underpowered, if anything.

Maybe my perspective is severely skewed with all the mods I play.  With Adversary and Nexerelin, for example, if I'm going to invade the Optimal system, I need several thousand marines.  I think I've forgotten how many marines a player actually needs in a vanilla game.   

[Dazs]

Yes the goal is to use this hull mod to carry less marines to save on monthly credits and replacement costs at the cost of OP. I originally had it at 5 ground support but I felt 10 was more fitting for the amount of crew space. I honestly did not think some player would put it on all their ships when I calculated that but yea I guess it can be a bit OP.

...overpowered?    30 ships with Arsenal Lockers (300) are outdone by 2 Phantoms (400).  I'd actually call that underpowered, if anything.

Well hello again, allow me to clarify my statement about ground support being unknown territory for me because there are a more scenarios other than raw ground support strength. For example, I took into account that if a player placed it on 30 ships they would be replacing at least one troop carrier (in your scenario two) with a deployable DPS ship(s).

Maybe my perspective is severely skewed with all the mods I play.  With Adversary and Nexerelin, for example, if I'm going to invade the Optimal system, I need several thousand marines.  I think I've forgotten how many marines a player actually needs in a vanilla game.   

Another sticky widget when I add hull mods is I do not take into account what other mods can do. I'd go insane if I had to think about how they can be stacked against another mod's similar hull mod. Essentially I do my best to use vanilla as a baseline and all factors I can think of when I add these hull mods. I frequently get it wrong mind you which I why I appreciate when players give their suggestions/comments.

[Jam_mer]

All mod with cargo space to OP iam think. Warships dont have cargo space anyway. They should be used only for civil

[Dazs]

All mod with cargo space to OP iam think. Warships dont have cargo space anyway. They should be used only for civil

Good morning and thank you for your input. Warships do indeed have cargo space just not nearly as much as dedicated cargo ships like the Atlas. I intentionally made all the detractors in the cargo and fuel hull mods to be negatives for combat ships. They either reduce speed, hull or maneuverability, sometimes with a combination.

Personally I would not recommend putting those on any ship you plan to deploy in combat as it makes them easy to outmaneuver targets. However, that is my personal subjective opinion and this is a single player game. The focus of these hull mods is to give players options that they would not otherwise have. Your opinions may vary from mine but at the end of the day if you choose to use or not use a hull mod, it does not effect my personal game play and vice versa.

These hull mods will not be equipped on AI generated ships so there should never be an instance that they would effect the balance of a game unless the player chooses to use them. If you do not like some of them, it is safe to just ignore them and only use only the ones you do enjoy using.