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Author Topic: Apogee variants  (Read 7122 times)

Hotshot3434

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 04:44:49 PM »

For some reason I have developed a sort of loathing for the plasma cannon. On paper it sounds fine: good range, moderate fire rate, and high damage. But whenever i try to play with one mounted on a ship, I can't seem to effectively use it. I tend to fight the pirates more than the other factions, and if there is one thing the pirates are good at, it is spamming missiles everywhere. This usually means that every other shot you fire gets soaked up by the cloud of missile spam heading your way. The few shots that do slip through either hit their shields and do less than impressive damage or miss entirely due to the slow projectile speed (and the fact that pirates tend to field smaller and faster destroyers and frigates rather than large and lumbering cruisers and capitals).
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cerberusti

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2013, 02:22:12 PM »

To each their own I suppose, on the apogee I find the plasma cannon to be kind of overpowered (and somewhat ineffective on slower ships.)

One question though:  Do you drive it with turn to cursor on (I think the default is shift?) 

The ship is fast and maneuverable enough to avoid rocket swarms almost entirely.  Missiles head towards the ship, so while strafing they are usually not directly in front.
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Hotshot3434

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2013, 02:35:42 PM »

I do not use the shift key, but i do strafe with Q and E to avoid some of the weapon fire. I still tend to have problems shooting through the missile spray because they are most dense at the launcher point, which tends to be on the front of the ship where I am aiming at. I also tend to get in too close to enemy ships while duking it out. I have found it to be useful when there are lots of enemies around because they will not fire near each other, allowing you to only take fire from a few ships at a time rather than all at once. This also means that the cloud of missiles is more dense between me and the other ship.
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Wyvern

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2013, 02:41:16 PM »

That might explain some of it - I prefer to keep my distance from things, and tend to use the plasma cannon at the outside edge of its range.  Still, if you're dealing with an Enforcer throwing clouds of missiles at you... those do almost nothing to shields; just wait until it stops, or fire at an angle - it's often possible to sneak a shot in towards the sides of the target's shields, even when you can't get a clean hit head-on.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

cerberusti

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2013, 02:56:42 PM »


It is very hard to aim the cannon while turning with the keyboard, especially since the projectiles are slow enough that you must lead them (it may be better once you get the projectile speed skill, but I was in a conquest by that point.)

I usually snipe from long range while circle strafing, and aim for the rear portion of the ship (one of the rear / side sections is generally where I blow the armor out.)  If there is a crowd of ships chasing and firing rockets such that I cannot get a clean shot I usually hold fire, firing that thing is too costly to do so unless there is a good chance of hitting the target.

One of the other nice things about backing off and fighting from range is that shields can be down a significant amount of time since all fire will be coming in from the front, which helps with the flux.
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Lucian Greymark

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 03:42:23 PM »

The plasma cannon is useless on a hullmount, for best results put it on a ship that has large energy turrets. The two best hull mount large energy weapons are the high intensity laser and the auto pulse, and of the two the autopulse is far superior for the opogee that can support it with heavy blasters or graviton beams.
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Wyvern

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 03:47:30 PM »

...You have a very strange definition of "useless".  I should see if I can make a video of plasma Apogee (or even plasma Sunder) vs. pirate fleet; hitting even frigates with it is pretty easy for me; only gets tricky when you're trying to snipe fighters (or sometimes Hounds) with the thing.  (Which is why I usually load up a plasma Sunder with light assault guns for its turrets - those are excellent anti-fighter weapons.)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:49:41 PM by Wyvern »
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cerberusti

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 04:12:01 PM »

Heh, I was just thinking the easy way to show it may be a video (although I would need to go get fraps and find a place to upload it.)

I find hitting fighters decently easy due to their preference to fly directly at your ship and not dodge.  Hounds can be a bit difficult to hit (I tend to spread the shots for them, to give a better chance to land one.)

The autopulse is a fairly effective weapon in most cases, but it takes a while to down a ship with one (somewhat mitigated if you blast the armor with antimatter... but that requires braving the dangers of close range combat.)  A couple of well placed plasma cannon volleys is enough to end a pirate ship.
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Lucian Greymark

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2013, 04:30:12 PM »

The apogee has it's best longevity when used as a support for a capital ship in larger battles. Where it needs to be able to survive a lot more hits than 1v1, hence the need for a flux efficient weapon *plasma cannon gets thrown out the window*
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Wyvern

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2013, 04:54:46 PM »

If you're using it for support, under AI control... I'd probably go with something similar to its base variant; HIL & MIRV with secondary weapons optimized for an anti-fighter role, probably phase beams & burst PD lasers.

The AI doesn't do well with a plasma cannon in a hardpoint; this is indubitably true.  For whatever reason it's vastly more accurate with a turreted plasma cannon.

Cerberusti and I are both talking about using an Apogee as a flagship, where the player can leverage the plasma cannon's high DPS & per-shot damage to devastating effect.  And, well, you don't actually need flux-efficient weapons if you can dissipate the flux they generate; an Apogee with 30 vents can sustain plasma cannon fire almost indefinitely even with shields active.  (And, once you've got some skill points and things like stabilized shields, it *can* sustain that indefinitely.)

The real key to making a usable plasma Apogee in early game is that you don't want to use all of its weapon slots.  Fill in the turrets with support weapons, install a plasma cannon, throw everything else into vents and capacitors and targeting core hull mod and maybe unstable injector if you've got ordnance points to spare; you should come out with at least 20 each of vents & capacitors.
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cloakdood

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Re: Apogee variants
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2013, 05:22:38 PM »

I generally run with this configuration:


Pretty much unstoppable. I can take on any fleet thrown at me with just the Apogee. Having at least one frigate makes the job a whole lot easier.
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