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[Mr. Nobody]

Simple fix, the reason why synchrotron cores/nanoforges can fit on the ship cargo holds is because they were made by Future!IKEA

[bobucles]

Simple fix, the reason why synchrotron cores/nanoforges can fit on the ship cargo holds is because they were made by Future!IKEA

While that is a cute explanation, it's inconsistent because cores and forges are actually good.

[Megas]

Yes, cargo can be put into stable orbit.... for a month, I hope you got a notebook and a pen on you while playing because your going to need them with that.

I think it also costs supplies to put things in orbit.  One time, I vaguely remember wanting to put a load of excess loot in stable orbit until I saw the supply cost required to do so.  At that point, I said "forget this!" and left the junk behind to rot.  Supply cost and the trouble of remembering where I found the goodies.  Too much trouble to deal with.

[intrinsic_parity]

Yeah the whole stable orbit thing is kinda useless right now. If something is worth enough that it could justify the supply cost, you can almost always dump some worthless junk like metals and easily fit it in your inventory. Putting derelict ships in stable orbits would be somewhat more useful.

TBH it would make more sense from a realism perspective if it cost fuel to put something in a stable orbit. That might make it more useful since fuel is cheaper, although it might also make it less useful if you absolutely need the fuel to get home.

[Plantissue]

I rather like that you can just grab nanoforges and synchrotron cores for 1 cargo space. It's a nice feeling of lost tech; a small high tech device that can build itself out. Almost technology indistinguishable from magic style of thing. I imagine them to be the size of a computer chip, no bigger than an LPC or blueprint. What happens if you find one and you don't have the cargo or resources to put it into stable orbit? You lose it forever? That would be a further disincentive to ever explore till you are set up and ready to do so.

[bobucles]

I rather like that you can just grab nanoforges and synchrotron cores for 1 cargo space.

At the same time, it means that you can basically get all the hot grabs in the galaxy with a SO Cerberus+Dram. There is certainly other good loot to find, but the real treasures of an expedition can probably fit on the Dram alone.

[Cyber Von Cyberus]

I rather like that you can just grab nanoforges and synchrotron cores for 1 cargo space.

At the same time, it means that you can basically get all the hot grabs in the galaxy with a SO Cerberus+Dram. There is certainly other good loot to find, but the real treasures of an expedition can probably fit on the Dram alone.

To be honest I feel like increasing how much cargo space forges take wouldn't change much to game play unless you go overboard and make it use up like 1000 units of space.
On the other hand having forges and cores give off an energy signature which attracts hostile fleets is something interesting.

[bobucles]

To be honest I feel like increasing how much cargo space forges take wouldn't change much to game play unless you go overboard and make it use up like 1000 units of space.

Well, there are values between 1 and 1000 that also make sense. Check them out sometime.

The loot is super rare, and the player likely has a small-medium fleet when they start collecting them. A size around 50-100 is not an insane demand, considering that it is STILL an order of magnitude more value:cargo than any other cargo option. Being large is not just an obstacle, but it also provides useful information to the player. The item is larger, so you automatically need a larger(and thus better protected) fleet to carry it, and the size is annoying enough that the player is forced to pay attention and sell/store/use them rather than hoard them on their fleet. The meta changes from "oh this is 1 cargo, I'll just keep them all on hand as glorified cred chips in my captain's Kite" and "this is a pretty big and valuable item, I should do something with it".

Attracting pirates and trouble sounds like fun. However, why would pirates magically know about your loot? Space Intel is poor, and there are things like going dark, and shielded cargo holds. Well guarded, obscure loot would kind of prevent this kind of situation in the first place.

[Cyber Von Cyberus]

Well yes of course it can be increased to take up 50 or 100 cargo space, but in the end even if it did I would not even notice it.Maybe it's because I'm an experienced player at this point but you ideally shouldn't be hauling your forges with you all the time and find somewhere to store them otherwise you'll lose them if your fleet is destroyed.

[Plantissue]

I rather like that you can just grab nanoforges and synchrotron cores for 1 cargo space.

At the same time, it means that you can basically get all the hot grabs in the galaxy with a SO Cerberus+Dram. There is certainly other good loot to find, but the real treasures of an expedition can probably fit on the Dram alone.

Gameplay-wise is that a problem? Gamemood-wise, is that a problem? If anything, size 1 adds to the mood of lost tech and civilisation decay. Size 1, 50, 100, 1000 is just as arbitrary as 1 or 10000. Except 1 is both convenient and mood enhancing.

[intrinsic_parity]

50-100 can still fit in very basic fleets. Your Cerberus + Dram fleet could still hold it with room to spare. I think most players run a significantly bigger fleet than that, so I don't think 50-100 cargo would cause the average player to change anything about how they play (just drop 50-100 metals, who cares). You would need it to be quite a bit more for it to actually start requiring a larger fleet.

I'm not even convinced that a larger fleet is actually safer (or desirable) for looting though. Fast is often safer than big. It's more about how well you match up to fleets that can catch you rather than how many combat ships you have, so a very small fleet could still be very safe. If you want to eliminate the 'small fleet looting super valuable stuff' gameplay, a much better way to do that is to just add defenders to stations that require combat, otherwise people will just add as many fast cargo ships as necessary.

[shoi]

Why would or even should there need to be an arbitrary size limit for a fleet to loot valuable stuff?

Attracting pirates and trouble sounds like fun. However, why would pirates magically know about your loot? Space Intel is poor, and there are things like going dark, and shielded cargo holds. Well guarded, obscure loot would kind of prevent this kind of situation in the first place.

They shouldn't. The only way it'd make sense is if it involves fleets already in the system coming to investigate if you trip something (which they already do). Even if that wasn't the case, this doesn't add anything, an extra fight and its over with..how does that make things any more fun? Same with adding cargo size. What does this change besides "bring a bigger fleet." If you want to make rarer stuff harder to acquire, then the real solution would be making it tougher to make it out of the core worlds so easily.


What should happen IMO is that acquiring super rare stuff of that nature should have a longer term consequence, much like how Alpha Cores are handled. installing those things should put a giant bullseye on your colony, be it by diplomatic demands or otherwise. Colonies instantly will install them if you sell those things, so they are obviously highly sought after.

[Dread Lord Murubarda]

what if, instead, you would need a specialized ship to uninstall forges/cores with 100% success, without it would be random.

and what if after you have acquired nanoforges you could start a long hacking process to see if you can unlock some schematics from them. by long, I mean 3 months. but you would need your own base to do that or you could try the TT bastards, but can you trust them? maybe the pirates if you are friendly with them. you can only  get capitals from hacking done on your own planet, because TT and the pirates will most certainly not give you those.

or trade other  factions, including TT and pirates, for schematics in exchange for forges.

[bobucles]

What does this change besides "bring a bigger fleet." If you want to make rarer stuff harder to acquire, then the real solution would be making it tougher to make it out of the core worlds so easily.

Okay. So instead of "bring a bigger fleet", let's make the exploration harder. But wait. The solution to a higher difficulty exploration is also "bring a bigger fleet", right? Congrats, it's back to square one.

In any event, all the small pieces add up to a larger experience. You can't go packing a dozen nanoforges into a single kite, because it won't fit. You can't go out a single combat ship, because some spots have remote defenders that have to be broken through. You can't do a micro stealth run, because your fleet is now getting too big to hide. And you can't sit on precious loot forever, because someone is going to notice and start attacking you for it. There is a combination of small obstacles, medium obstacles and large obstacles to overcome, and that's not a bad thing. They don't all have to hit at once, and they all don't have to be game ending disasters, but they become part of the exploration experience. The end result is what you would call "fleshed out" gameplay.

[Plantissue]

Did you just replace the actual descriptions of the items in the game with your own personal headcanon and are now trying to push that alternate fiction onto everybody else? You seem to have a bizarre notion that Nanoforges and Synchrotron Core are massive items. Storing a dozen nanoforges into a single Kite is not a problem.