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Author Topic: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost  (Read 3086 times)

xenoargh

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2019, 03:52:29 PM »

Quote
Good luck getting kited to death by 500+ speed Paragon
I haven't tried a Paragon in this configuration, but I'd imagine it makes it just about impossible to escape one.  200 speed changes things quite enough to see the difference in the dynamics, honestly. 

Then again, I'm OK with the Paragon being completely terrifying, lol.

Seriously, though?  I think this was an interesting experiment.  I'm not sure that it's a good solution to the mechanics problems we see:

1.  Square / Rectangular arenas are kind of inherently bad.
2.  Having to chase enemies for long periods is definitely boring and probably bad.
3.  Having lengthy chases at the end of battles that are otherwise foregone conclusions is definitely bad.
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Chronosfear

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2019, 10:55:47 AM »

Flux-Speed boost depending on ship class might do the trick. tho I thinks it not that easy to do

So I still haven't had the time to try it out with 200/500 but i could be fun for a while.
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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2019, 06:55:32 PM »

Variable speed boost based on flux could be more interesting.

+50 at 0-flux, slowly losing that bonus up to 30% flux. Would make the AI more pursuit-worthy instead of watching them fail to catch anything because they insist their shield must be active at all times, even against a freighter armed with a single light machinegun.
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Ranakastrasz

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2019, 09:40:51 AM »

Kinda interesting. That said, no increase in acceleration and some ships not maintaining shields resulted in a lot of ships being stuck orbiting each other. Kinda cool though.


Arcean Order mod makes all ships get flux boost up to 7%, and also made a lot of weapons not use flux. It has a bit of a similar effect, engangement and disengagement wise.
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xenoargh

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2019, 12:50:20 PM »

Sorry for the rez, but I've tried this out for a bit (about 20 fights now), at 200.

Final conclusions:

1.  This benefits the AI more than the player.  No, really!  The AI doesn't get smashed due to stuff dying piecemeal before the heavies can arrive vs. a player-fleet utilizing basic tactics (i.e., either go to a central point or use a hammer / anvil).  This maybe means that heavies should move a bit faster at top speed, imo, but be limited on acceleration as they are now.

2.  Because Fighters don't get the boost... it really hoses them.  IDK why Fighters don't get the boost, but I'm voting that that not be a thing; 50 speed difference is probably why Fighters in Vanilla can't seem to catch stuff reliably during mop-up (in my modded game, it's not a problem at 50, but 200 replicated the issue).

3.  Watching ships with low constant Flux loadings circle each other but never be able to get anything decisive done was amusing, but annoying.

4.  A lot of this made me think that the best way to deal with CR is to gradually slow ships down, if they're low, rather than random Flame Outs, etc.  Nothing would get Frigates off the field faster than, "all the fighters can catch me and eat me".

5.  It's really pretty amusing to watch giant ships suddenly appear in the middle of a fight. 

6.  It's also nice when your Cruisers can finally box pesky Destroyers into corners.  Man, I wish this game didn't have corners, though.

Overall, hmm.  I kind of wish there wasn't late-fight cleanup, period.  Nothing's more pointless than 5 Frigates running away from 3 Cruisers that they could only have a chance against if they all ganged up on it.  I think I'm going to write another Admiral AI, like I did in Vacuum, to get rid of that "feature".
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Schwartz

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2019, 01:08:47 PM »

Here's my suggestion which I didn't think through very well:

Make raised shields and fighters on 'assault' always disable flux boost. Reinstate a default flux boost for up to 5% or whatever it used to be. Leave everything else as-is.
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xenoargh

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2019, 01:20:35 PM »

Hmm.  The thing is, raised shields just means that fleeing opponents always get the advantage they already have, especially if they're firing off zero-Flux weapons behind them. 

I get where you're going there- raised shields means some fighter protection- but in testing, in a universe where fighters aren't crippled, speed-wise, vs. Frigates... just having fighters be a bit faster than base Frigates is almost enough (granted, high-level Captains, SO and other things can tilt this rough balance once again).

I agree with the default flux boost being 5%, except that the issue was with Carriers, in particular, IIRC; in that case, why not simply forbid them from having the Flux boost... or cut their base speed enough that it doesn't help, or make the speed boost a per-ship percentile, and they simply don't get any?

Honestly, if we're talking about tweaking how the Flux-boost works in general, I think a per-ship percentile might be best; then we can have "interceptors" which get a clear advantage in chases vs. others that don't, and hand out bennies to balance the lot.  The rule being that it's flat regardless of ship type, class, anything has always felt odd; it's a huge benefit to Capitals, in relation to their base speeds, but is less-meaningful for the fastest Frigates with Captains who also boost their top speed (except that here, it pushes them right out of Vanilla fighter speeds entirely, causing endless kiting issues in these long, drawn-out endgame scenarios).
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Schwartz

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2019, 01:49:28 PM »

Would be too hard a nerf to forbid carriers from having flux boost. It's an essential mechanic and carriers need to be able to move and retreat too. Even more so 'cause their armament isn't that good usually.

If you're chasing a fleeing enemy, you have the upper hand. Let's assume you can take a few hits with your shields down and close the gap to make the kill.

Doing it per-ship would of course be one solution, but it would be yet another stat that needs to be balanced and accounted for across the board. Could just slap a passive mobility system on a pursuer / harasser frigate or two that manipulates the way flux boost works.
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xenoargh

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2019, 01:54:56 PM »

Quote
Could just slap a passive mobility system on a pursuer / harasser frigate or two that manipulates the way flux boost works.
That's a thought; have a "clean up crew" specifically for that scenario, bring them in at the end, boom.  I'll look at that as a Hull Mod.
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Lilly112

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2020, 05:46:27 AM »

Sorry to necro, but relevant. How do I do this? I've poked around the files a bit but they are complex - to me at least - and I have no confidence in modifying them. Plus there is no mod that increases ship speed so I am left with ponderous hunks of metal far to early in the game.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2020, 05:51:59 AM »

Code
"zeroFluxEngineBoost":X,

You can find this string in Starsector\starsector-core\data\config\settings.json.
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Lilly112

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Re: High Zero-Flux Speed Boost
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2020, 07:16:00 AM »

Thank you thank you. Poked around in the right file this time. It really helped.
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