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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

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Total Members Voted: 900


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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released  (Read 1332810 times)

Vitya_Pinguinus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2970 on: April 27, 2020, 06:15:26 AM »

Whenever i research blackrock hull modification, it doesn't appear in the hull mod list, so i can't install it
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2971 on: April 27, 2020, 09:44:26 AM »

Whenever i research blackrock hull modification, it doesn't appear in the hull mod list, so i can't install it
Check that you've got the blackrock hull mod tag selected.  It'll frequently default to not, and then none of the mods show up.  (The ability to filter hull mods by tag is actually pretty useful when you have a lot of mods, but only if you actually know it's there.)
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Vitya_Pinguinus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2972 on: April 28, 2020, 01:39:24 AM »

Whenever i research blackrock hull modification, it doesn't appear in the hull mod list, so i can't install it
Check that you've got the blackrock hull mod tag selected.  It'll frequently default to not, and then none of the mods show up.  (The ability to filter hull mods by tag is actually pretty useful when you have a lot of mods, but only if you actually know it's there.)
My god, you're right. Thank you so much for pointing that out :)
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Cane

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2973 on: May 23, 2020, 12:17:55 AM »

Hi, this is my favourite faction mod by a very long way. Everything about Blackrock is fantastic, and I commend you for your work on it.

I have, however, found something you should be aware of. Someone else noticed the same thing, on the previous page, and it appears to have gone unnoticed, so let me reiterate it here.

The Vespa is completely overpowered. It offers the most powerful unguided payload available outside of the Cobra Bomber, and it does so at several times the speed of its Reaper-class rival. The result is a torpedo dealing 2500 damage (plus 1500 EMP damage) travelling at speeds high enough to catch destroyers.

This alone is very strong, though not enough to be overpowered. In fact, the Vespa bombers are balanced in most cases through the following drawback:

Their flight path takes them directly into danger, so you are more likely to lose them than you are most other bombers. Even if they don’t die, their flight path leads them far away from your carrier, making them take a lot longer than most bombers to return to the ship. As a result of Vespas dying and taking a long time to return, your fighter reinforcement takes a beating. If you field Vespas, you spend a long time waiting for them to be ready again.

Unless you use the Vespas on the Astral.

Now you have 12 Vespas travelling faster than any other bomber, launching torpedoes faster than any other torpedo, each torpedo doing more damage than any other weapon save the Reaper, each torpedo almost impossible to evade and which PD systems can’t kill in time, fielded on a ship that can teleport the bombers straight back after they have finished their bombing run, completely negating the only weakness that renders them balanced.

12 Vespas. Dealing 30,000 damage.

Two six-wing Vespa runs can kill an Onslaught from full shield and full health, and an officer-controlled Astral can land that 30,000 damage nuke over and over and over again.

This wasn’t playtested. It can’t have been.

To make the most of this broken combo, pair your Astral with a couple of lesser carriers using fighters and interceptors. These keep your Astral safe from enemy fighter wings, and they help by overloading the weapon and PD systems of your target enemy.

Well, at least you no longer have to Drover spam?

Anyway. Still, best mod ever. Sick work all around.
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Ishman

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2974 on: May 23, 2020, 09:23:59 AM »

Spoiler
Hi, this is my favourite faction mod by a very long way. Everything about Blackrock is fantastic, and I commend you for your work on it.

I have, however, found something you should be aware of. Someone else noticed the same thing, on the previous page, and it appears to have gone unnoticed, so let me reiterate it here.

The Vespa is completely overpowered. It offers the most powerful unguided payload available outside of the Cobra Bomber, and it does so at several times the speed of its Reaper-class rival. The result is a torpedo dealing 2500 damage (plus 1500 EMP damage) travelling at speeds high enough to catch destroyers.

This alone is very strong, though not enough to be overpowered. In fact, the Vespa bombers are balanced in most cases through the following drawback:

Their flight path takes them directly into danger, so you are more likely to lose them than you are most other bombers. Even if they don’t die, their flight path leads them far away from your carrier, making them take a lot longer than most bombers to return to the ship. As a result of Vespas dying and taking a long time to return, your fighter reinforcement takes a beating. If you field Vespas, you spend a long time waiting for them to be ready again.

Unless you use the Vespas on the Astral.

Now you have 12 Vespas travelling faster than any other bomber, launching torpedoes faster than any other torpedo, each torpedo doing more damage than any other weapon save the Reaper, each torpedo almost impossible to evade and which PD systems can’t kill in time, fielded on a ship that can teleport the bombers straight back after they have finished their bombing run, completely negating the only weakness that renders them balanced.

12 Vespas. Dealing 30,000 damage.

Two six-wing Vespa runs can kill an Onslaught from full shield and full health, and an officer-controlled Astral can land that 30,000 damage nuke over and over and over again.

This wasn’t playtested. It can’t have been.

To make the most of this broken combo, pair your Astral with a couple of lesser carriers using fighters and interceptors. These keep your Astral safe from enemy fighter wings, and they help by overloading the weapon and PD systems of your target enemy.

Well, at least you no longer have to Drover spam?

Anyway. Still, best mod ever. Sick work all around.
[close]

Astral's egregiously overpowered, any mod bomber can do the equivalent (seriously, just throw some other good bomber on to compare). The fury torpedo's ENERGY damage type confuses your impressions of it - it's effective enough against shields to force overloads and has enough per-hit damage to chew through the armor damage reduction calculation and expose bare hull - as is intended for it's all around nature.

Using mod weaponry outside of its faction is a silly comparison, it's simple to pair things together such that you remove weaknesses or enhance factional strengths to the point of something being broken.

Fighters are simply broken and shouldn't be used in balance discussions till the next version's changes are seen and mods update as needed.

Even more hilarious is the intimation that an entirely unscreened capital ship *should* be able to survive 12 wings of combined bombing damage output of *any* bomber that isn't a joke (piranha).

And just so we're clear about how broken fighters are - that astral's DP cost is *still* less effective than it's equivalent DP of drovers & sparks. Fighter Recall is bad, reserve deployment is broken.
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Aereto

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2975 on: May 24, 2020, 10:08:21 PM »

Spoiler
Hi, this is my favourite faction mod by a very long way. Everything about Blackrock is fantastic, and I commend you for your work on it.

I have, however, found something you should be aware of. Someone else noticed the same thing, on the previous page, and it appears to have gone unnoticed, so let me reiterate it here.

The Vespa is completely overpowered. It offers the most powerful unguided payload available outside of the Cobra Bomber, and it does so at several times the speed of its Reaper-class rival. The result is a torpedo dealing 2500 damage (plus 1500 EMP damage) travelling at speeds high enough to catch destroyers.

This alone is very strong, though not enough to be overpowered. In fact, the Vespa bombers are balanced in most cases through the following drawback:

Their flight path takes them directly into danger, so you are more likely to lose them than you are most other bombers. Even if they don’t die, their flight path leads them far away from your carrier, making them take a lot longer than most bombers to return to the ship. As a result of Vespas dying and taking a long time to return, your fighter reinforcement takes a beating. If you field Vespas, you spend a long time waiting for them to be ready again.

Unless you use the Vespas on the Astral.

Now you have 12 Vespas travelling faster than any other bomber, launching torpedoes faster than any other torpedo, each torpedo doing more damage than any other weapon save the Reaper, each torpedo almost impossible to evade and which PD systems can’t kill in time, fielded on a ship that can teleport the bombers straight back after they have finished their bombing run, completely negating the only weakness that renders them balanced.

12 Vespas. Dealing 30,000 damage.

Two six-wing Vespa runs can kill an Onslaught from full shield and full health, and an officer-controlled Astral can land that 30,000 damage nuke over and over and over again.

This wasn’t playtested. It can’t have been.

To make the most of this broken combo, pair your Astral with a couple of lesser carriers using fighters and interceptors. These keep your Astral safe from enemy fighter wings, and they help by overloading the weapon and PD systems of your target enemy.

Well, at least you no longer have to Drover spam?

Anyway. Still, best mod ever. Sick work all around.
[close]

Astral's egregiously overpowered, any mod bomber can do the equivalent (seriously, just throw some other good bomber on to compare). The fury torpedo's ENERGY damage type confuses your impressions of it - it's effective enough against shields to force overloads and has enough per-hit damage to chew through the armor damage reduction calculation and expose bare hull - as is intended for it's all around nature.

Using mod weaponry outside of its faction is a silly comparison, it's simple to pair things together such that you remove weaknesses or enhance factional strengths to the point of something being broken.

Fighters are simply broken and shouldn't be used in balance discussions till the next version's changes are seen and mods update as needed.

Even more hilarious is the intimation that an entirely unscreened capital ship *should* be able to survive 12 wings of combined bombing damage output of *any* bomber that isn't a joke (piranha).

And just so we're clear about how broken fighters are - that astral's DP cost is *still* less effective than it's equivalent DP of drovers & sparks. Fighter Recall is bad, reserve deployment is broken.

Either way, I cannot help but watch the resulting carnage my faction fleet fields when I make the Vespa one of the bombers my faction uses after getting my hands on their blueprints. My flagship didn't get in on the early action in time, and they were just using cruiser carriers.
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Cycerin

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2976 on: May 26, 2020, 04:35:27 AM »

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I think the Vespa needs adjustment but It's looking like the next update will come after the next vanilla update, 'cause I don't want to fork my wip stuff with the limited time and interest for Starsector modding I've had recently.
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mora

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2977 on: July 06, 2020, 12:04:20 PM »

The 0-Series Nevermore is tagged as brdy-rare instead of brdy_rare (dash instead of underscore.) Because of this, the BRDY doesn't know it, making it unobtainable.
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Chikanuk

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Re: [0.9.1a] Blackrock Drive Yards v0.9.5a (10.06.2019) - Hotfix released
« Reply #2978 on: July 07, 2020, 12:57:12 AM »

Its maybe late, but i disagree with Vaspas being OP. With Astral many mod bombers is overpowered. Cuz imho its really hard to do mod wich will be balanced both on its own, with vanilla and with over mods at the same time (if not impossible).
Try Myrmidons for example (from Kadur mod if i remember correctly). With astral they 1shot any ship smaller than capital in one go, first torpedoes overcharge shield (even with pure HE damage) and rest just blow ship to pieces. And any capital with 50%+ flux will be destroyer in same way. In some late game fights i easy can deal 1k+ damage with this combo.
But put them on different carrier - and they suddenly become pretty mediocre, cuz they slow, cost 30 op and easy to target with big guns.
Sane with vespas - they pretty fragile and take wierd moving paths. Its just the fact, what astral negate weaknesses of most bombers.


P.S. I want space monsters!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 02:17:51 AM by Chikanuk »
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