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[AxleMC131]

No idea if this has been discussed before anywhere, but here we go.

So in the stock Starsector campaign, it's possible to be completely eliminated by an enemy fleet and have your "fleet scattered", yet you manage to escape and eventually find your way back to civilization. Then the game randomly selects a new ship from a list of options and puts you in command of it in a seemingly random location in the sector.

However. The game does NOT accelerate time forwards before respawning you, which weirds me the hell out. If my fleet is destroyed in Corvus on June 27th Cycle 207, the last thing I expect is to then "respawn" in the Yma system with a brand new ship on June 27th Cycle 207. It's convenient, sure, but also super strange, and feels wrong every time I notice it.

My suggestion is: could the game run time forwards a set or random amount before it respawns you, allowing the game to change and the universe to progress as it would naturally over the time it takes you to find a new ship? This feature actually already exists when starting a new game, where Starsector creates the world without you in it and then simulates it forwards for a couple of months to let fleets move; events occur; relationships change; etc, before spawning you in. Why could the same thing not occur upon "death" in the campaign?

[Linnis]

This would be actually cool when we get industry and stuff. Where sector time progression becomes more important

[MesoTroniK]

I would also like to see a STARFARER MODE... Where if your fleet gets wiped entirely then it nukes your save.

I mean after all, you died right? The whole Rogue Like crowd would love this.

[Midnight Kitsune]

I would also like to see a STARFARER MODE... Where if your fleet gets wiped entirely then it nukes your save.

I mean after all, you died right? The whole Rogue Like crowd would love this.

^This, 110%

[Az the Squishy]

I would also like to see a STARFARER MODE... Where if your fleet gets wiped entirely then it nukes your save.

I mean after all, you died right? The whole Rogue Like crowd would love this.

^This, 110%

Oh yeah, that'd be fun... perhaps it forces you to make an entirely new character in the world generatted instead? That'd be even better, then I could have "Urist Mcdickerson the 3rd" out to kill all the priates he can because his father was enslaved and his brother was tourtured to death. Something outlandish like that.

As for the topic at hand, I agree. It'd make sense to have time jump depending on the distence needed to cross from your place of "death" to the randomly chosen panet in the system or hyper-space.

[nomadic_leader]

Starsector in general is a very well thought out and carefully designed game.

So the places where the care is absent really stand out like sore thumbs. One of these is the way that time increments.

What really bothers me is that you can land at a market, refit your ship, buy commodities, do all countless other number of things, and the clock doesn't increment AT ALL. Landing at a market should lose you a day minimum, and possibly more if you're refitting like 30 ships.

It would be good because landing on a planet would be a way for new players to escape pursuing enemies or pirates. As it is now, I think there's some convoluted thing Alex had to put in that makes hostile fleets near the market disappear.  Would it really be that hard to just have the campaign map calculate where all the fleets in the system would be 1 day later, as soon as you land?

[nomadic_leader]

Retraction: the campaign should increment a day (or days) when you LEAVE the planet. So you don't get gipped out of prices or timed campaign missions Also so the game can see what you do on the planet and increase the time increment accordingly

It should be minimum 1 day, but I really think there should be a little number in the corner of the screen that gets bigger the more ships you buy and the more and bigger refits you put on the agenda. Your fleet can deplete supplies at like 1/3 the usual rate or something for days in dock. There should just be a button that says "wait here another day" that actually increments time without you having to take off, for when you want to wait for markets to update with new ships and prices.

I mean right now you can literally refit a massive battle ship in literally no time? It's outrageous. That stuff takes hundreds of workers months in real life.

[Megas]

One day is simple enough.  Works for the game Endless Sky.

EDIT:  Although, in Starsector, if you docked secretly at an enemy station, one day may be too much time to loaf around and do stuff.  It may be silly, yet fun, to buy a working fleet (say, a Dominator and some Enforcers, and outfit them) from a Black Market, then undock and solo some enemy fleets.

[AxleMC131]

EDIT:  Although, in Starsector, if you docked secretly at an enemy station, one day may be too much time to loaf around and do stuff.  It may be silly, yet fun, to buy a working fleet (say, a Dominator and some Enforcers, and outfit them) from a Black Market, then undock and solo some enemy fleets.

Haha, that's a good point. I'm still confused by the fact that you can dock at stations with your transponder off and you can't repair ships because you require proper docking clearance... Yet you can still refit them? That doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

[nomadic_leader]

One day is simple enough.  Works for the game Endless Sky.

EDIT:  Although, in Starsector, if you docked secretly at an enemy station, one day may be too much time to loaf around and do stuff.  It may be silly, yet fun, to buy a working fleet (say, a Dominator and some Enforcers, and outfit them) from a Black Market, then undock and solo some enemy fleets.

Works in Endless Sky is a limited argument, since 1) this isn't endless sky, and 2) it isn't clear that it does work in ES; ES is pretty unbalanced in favour of player's massive fleets.

Adding bigger time increments is complicated and it could be a pain in the ass, but it's worth considering.

the underlying thing I don't get is: what Alex is trying to do with this game? On the one hand, he goes through the trouble to simulate an entire economy and has all these procedurally generated NPCs that maintain a reputation status with the player, but then there are all these concessions to casual gaming and shootemups that jerk you out of the immersive dorkyness. The ultranerd aspects of SS and the casual aspects of SS don't really gel together. So go full ultranerd

[Megas]

What is the reason for passing time while docked?  Trying to be realistic in a game that violates reality in several ways?  Plausibility may be a good reason, but for that, a broad and simple solution that can plausibly explain most if not everything should suffice.

I bought up one day in Endless Sky because it seems simple and works there as plausible explanation for whatever the player does while docked.  Some activities may take more or less a day.  (In ES, you can buy and outfit a thousand Star Barges for whatever silly purpose.  Would it take more than a day?  I don't know, but it doesn't matter that much.  Should it take a whole day for quick refueling stop for one ship?  Don't know, doesn't matter.)  Yes, Starsector is not the same (kind of) game, but similar enough that the concept that works in ES can work here too (at least until maybe Starsector gets outpost building).  Both games have stations player can dock at.  Both games let player buy or sell commodities or ships, or maintain your fleet.  Both games are similar in feel.  Maybe if Starsector supports outpost or other empire building aspects, gameplay will diverge from other similar games.

Yes, player can get so overpowered in ES as to snuff out the Archons like nothing.  That is probably comparable as player getting so overpowered here that he can solo super-simulator fleets with a battleship without taking hull damage.

That said, you are not allowed to dock at enemy stations in Endless Sky (with exceptions for some missions).  In Starsector, you can dock at an enemy station with the largest, most flamboyant war and/or trader fleet if the enemy is sufficiently distracted (and transponder is off).  Spending much time at a vengeful enemy station while they are after your head does not seem very plausible.  If spending time at a enemy station is implausible, it is a good thing transactions and outfitting are instantaneous.

If outposts and maintenance becomes a thing, time will probably become very important.

the underlying thing I don't get is: what Alex is trying to do with this game? On the one hand, he goes through the trouble to simulate an entire economy and has all these procedurally generated NPCs that maintain a reputation status with the player, but then there are all these concessions to casual gaming and shootemups that jerk you out of the immersive dorkyness.

This is not a problem for me.  Starsector is a game first and foremost, not an interactive novel or movie.  Do people get Starsector for a compelling story? to blast ships?

[AxleMC131]

Aye, that last point especially is a good one. Starsector is a game. Sure, we can always demand (and enjoy!) the immersion, but when it comes down to it, real-world problems don't always coincide with the game world.

That's why we play video games, isn't it? To escape the real world.

[Weltall]

Haha, that's a good point. I'm still confused by the fact that you can dock at stations with your transponder off and you can't repair ships because you require proper docking clearance... Yet you can still refit them? That doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

This would make more sense if the instant repair at stations, would actually cost the played an amount of spacebucks along with supplies. When refitting happens I just imagine the crew running left and right and really fast changing the weaponry. It takes too little time to attract attention, since to begin with you are in a way with the transponder off in an area that you are not really observed, right?

Repairs should be possible to be done for free, be it you landed legally or illegally, but it would require time to pass, down to half the time it would require you to repair while traveling. If you land legally though, there could be the instant repair choice, where you spend money to get it done in almost no time or just instantly. That way it would feel that instant repairs are done through the paid services you get on the planet, but free repairs are just done by the crew itself.

[AxleMC131]

Repairs should be possible to be done for free, be it you landed legally or illegally, but it would require time to pass, down to half the time it would require you to repair while traveling. If you land legally though, there could be the instant repair choice, where you spend money to get it done in almost no time or just instantly. That way it would feel that instant repairs are done through the paid services you get on the planet, but free repairs are just done by the crew itself.

That's a good idea, having a choice (depending on your situation of course) to sneak into an empty dock and have your shipboard engineers do the repairs with limited equipment over some time, or dock with clearance and pay a fee for a quicker, more thorough professional repair job.

[nomadic_leader]

I mentioned above in a post the gameplay reasons for having time pass while landed (mostly just one day, but maybe more)

What is a game? Why shouldn't it be an interactive novel? You all started playing when it was just blasting ships, so of course that is the part of the game you're most interested in. But maybe that isn't what the game really should be limited to, particularly when so much care has already been put into other aspects of it.

And that doesn't mean the different elements of the game shouldn't fit together harmoniously to make it a better game. And mostly they do-- which is why things like timeless docking/reffitting/landing/respawning stand out more to a discerning and critical eye.