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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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What next?

Capital carrier
- 5 (27.8%)
Cruiser carrier
- 3 (16.7%)
Assault cruiser
- 3 (16.7%)
Civilian ships
- 0 (0%)
Some weird frigate
- 2 (11.1%)
Weapons
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Total Members Voted: 18


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Author Topic: [0.7.2a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.6 (update 2016-08-27)  (Read 82554 times)

HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2015, 04:30:18 PM »

I played a few hours a PBC campaign, unfortunately i couldn't get very far. I'm not sure what strategy i should follow with them. Early game is rough, and mid game (couldn't reach late) isn't easier. Overall, my criticism will be similar to the one Funk made.

The Orion isn't a very good solo ship to begin the campaign. The weird weapon layout make it clunky, and it's slowness prevent any escape, even with its interdiction drones (that are also slow themselves). The Pallas and Scylla are better, the first one pilot a bit like a Wolf (but is surprisingly incredibly expensive) while the other is a mixed energy Lasher hybrid.

I expected the Kratos to be my early backbone ship, unfortunately i realized it couldn't take many hits, nor give them. The Nyx wasn't really an alternative either. The Aidos surprised me, the description present it as a mediocre carrier, yet that thing have two launch bays, it's huge! And for pretty much the same cost as a Condor! Something definitely went wrong somewhere in the numbers.

The introduction of the Gaia in my fleet didn't helped much either. It's a crappy Apogee, but fortunately cheap. However, as my fleet had nothing to take the punches, i couldn't benefit from its support for very long.

A Phobos might have been what i needed. Unfortunately i couldn't find one, nor i could afford it.

But even then, i'm not sure how i'm supposed to use them. I tried a deathball tactic, something similar to what i usually do with II and Exigency. Didn't really worked though, the enemy just rushed in and destroyed everything. A run and gun, SCY-like tactic, wouldn't work either due to their lack of mobility. No Flagship focused fleet either for the same reason, not fast enough. As a pure carrier fleet maybe? With the 0.71 ship limit, it doesn't works super well (even with the currently broken Aidos), it would also "nullify" the rest of the ships, which would be sad.

So... Not sure how it should works.

Bear in mind that i played with SS+ and Nexerelin, which currently make the game really, really frickin' hard. But even then, i think PBC is noticeably on the underpowered side. At least for the early/mid game, didn't really had the chance to go beyond that.

Other than that, a few things i noted :

-The Pallas randomly use its Graviton burst, even when not in contact with the enemy.
-The ships systems display numbers, but i don't know what they actually mean. For example : Ionized shield : -75, -50 without any descriptions. Same with the Phobos magnetic accelerator, i got just the numbers.

The faction still looks good, and i'll definitely keep it as a "permanently" activated mod faction. Can't really play as them, but they will do perfect NPCs for now.
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celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2015, 11:00:59 PM »

Thanks for detailed feedback, @Helmut!
Overall, I tried not to make the faction overpowered (like many other mods did unfortunately). So you probably won't find it balanced with something like Blackrock. But it is quite on par with vanilla, I suppose.

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The Orion isn't a very good solo ship to begin the campaign.
Agree, it was left since the first version when there was no choice due to lack of frigates. Scylla is intended to be a starting option. Though Orion is likely to get more speed in next update (or its drones more speed and range), as you described the same problem as I already thought of.

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The Pallas and Scylla are better, the first one pilot a bit like a Wolf (but is surprisingly incredibly expensive)
Well, the price tag is mostly due to its system, which can be very useful in player hands. But it is still much worse than top-tier frigates, so I will either buff its generic stats or lower the price.

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I expected the Kratos to be my early backbone ship, unfortunately i realized it couldn't take many hits, nor give them.
As you said, it is intended to be a backbone ship. It's balanced against Hammerhead, which I checked multiple times. It is not fancy, but it is quite decent, I find its implementation quite correct now.
There is also Moirai destroyer, which breaks off from the paradigm of slowness. It may be a bit difficult to find, but it is totally worth trying as a flagship.

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The Nyx wasn't really an alternative either.
As the description says, it is specialized to defeat phase ships (in probably quite inbalanced way). But it is definitely not a tank. More destroyers planned for next updates.

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The Aidos surprised me, the description present it as a mediocre carrier, yet that thing have two launch bays, it's huge!
Oops. I wanted to make it a Condor with less locations per bay (so that it can carry same number of wings, but have less slots for refit during battle). I probably messed with the file or maybe it was another 0.7 change for Condor... That will be fixed.

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A Phobos might have been what i needed. Unfortunately i couldn't find one, nor i could afford it.
That is definitely the tanky ship. It can take a lot of damage. Not sure why it wasn't present - when I play it is usually one of the most "popular" PBC cruisers on market list...

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Bear in mind that i played with SS+ and Nexerelin, which currently make the game really, really frickin' hard.
I suppose this was the main trouble. I played several times and have the same opinion. I already posted a screenshot with a whole fleet with lvl20 officers in Nex thread, but no one replied unfortunately. PBC is completely unplayable against such insanely leveled-up fleets, because the speed bonuses officers give are just too much. My faction wasn't fast before 0.7, but now it is just freakin turtle... Probably we'll get some fixes. And I also ended up lowering the supplies price in csv for my games: I just don't get fun out of supply hunt given current salvage.

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i think PBC is noticeably on the underpowered side. At least for the early/mid game, didn't really had the chance to go beyond that.
Their capitals and cruisers are cool, so maybe you'll try those some time later ;-) They do not play easy in early-mid game, that's true, but I plan on adding more stuff to FF and DD categories, so check it out when I roll the next update.

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-The Pallas randomly use its Graviton burst, even when not in contact with the enemy.
-The ships systems display numbers, but i don't know what they actually mean. For example : Ionized shield : -75, -50 without any descriptions. Same with the Phobos magnetic accelerator, i got just the numbers.
First issue is known, but I currently can't figure out the reason. Maybe I'll end up posting the code somewhere.
As for systems, that looks weird. Probably broken in 0.7, because I remember everything displayed correctly earlier. I'll check it out.

In general, I mentioned that I'm not that good at balancing stuff, so if you have suggestions on how to make things play better I would appreciate that.
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 05:25:15 AM »

For the suggestions, the drone speed buff for the Orion would be a good idea, so that they can catch anything that get too close. Does interdiction Suite works on the drones by the way? I suspect not, but the opposite would be interesting...

For the Kratos, its stats are clearly aligned (although slightly inferior) with the Hammerhead. However those two aren't backbone ships like the Enforcer is. Way too fragile. I forgot about the Moirai in my previous post but this one is closer to a cheap Medusa, doesn't fit the role either.

A an all around buff to the flux stats of the faction may be a good start here. The Hammerhead can use its full fire-power thanks to the flux reduction from Accelerated ammo feeder, while the Kratos will rapidly choke on the flux produced by Pulse lasers or blasters. With more flux stats, the faction will be better able to defend itself without being overpowered.

That still won't make the Kratos a proper tank for the fleet though. So maybe for the next planned destroyer then?

The Pallas is definitely too expensive for what it does. While the Graviton burst offer an interesting way to get out of trouble, it's not useful for offence. Well, maybe not completely useless, you can theoretically push enemy ships out of position for your fleet to catch it. Still very gimmicky, and useless during early game, and that's assuming it can outmanoeuvre enemy ships with its mediocre mobility. I'd be curious to see what it could do with improved stats.

I'll definitely try the bigger ships in the future at some point. I don't really know if they're truly good, but at least they looks cool.
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2015, 05:49:49 PM »

I agree with what Helmut said,

Ive been playing PBC since it was released ( i love the sprites btw, very very well done)

The Orion is a terrible ship to start as due to the starting weapon load out. I can only do so many shots before i flux out and the speed of it means i cannot actively chase anything small and I die to anything that I can chase (destroyers and other bigger slow ships). The interdiction drones are amazing for a starter ship but they are slower than the Orion itself, most of the time they are not even close to my ship.

I only choose PBC as my starting Faction if i want to try hard mode because everything can blow my face up D:

I got no problems with Kratos and i find it a perfect balance with vanilla ships.

overall early game and near mid game is very difficult for PBC. the Orion needs a buff in speed and a OP/ loadout change to be viable. The Drones need a speed buff to stay in "orbit" around the Orion.

If you reach lategame, PBC is very fun but getting to lategame is a massive grind.
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celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2015, 01:21:32 AM »

Got it, the next update will be mostly balancing existing stuff + maybe a new "bloody infantry" general-purpose destroyer.
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2015, 05:48:11 PM »

What is the chances of anything Higher than an Aether being spawned in Military Markets with 5+ stability 

I always only see Aethers and not once have i come across a Gaia, Thanatos and Moros.
I had to use Command Console to add them in to test them
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celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2015, 10:00:54 PM »

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What is the chances of anything Higher than an Aether being spawned in Military Markets with 5+ stability  
Well, a have played a lot of times with Nexerelin and usually find most of the ships you mention. There are always capitals on your homeworld, but there are also times when I have hard time finding 1-2 exact ships. Actually, Aether is one of the rarest in my experience... Thanatos is usually quite common, Moros being a bit harder to find. But that is very random, you know..

This is not an issue of the PBC, it is just the way the framework handles spawns, either in Vanilla or Nexerelin/SS+. This mod doesn't have special code for that, only numbers that affect stuff is the faction fleet config (with fair probability for all those ships, but AFAIK this is for fleet spawns, not ships in markets) and the quality factor of the variants (the same). And frankly speaking I have very vague idea on how the internal spawn logic works for adding ships to market.
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celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.2 (update 2015-12-06)
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2015, 09:59:07 AM »

The 1.3 version it out! Includes many changes recently discussed here, mostly balancing stuff.
Changes include:
- New general purpose destroyer: Theseus
- Gaia now has new needler drones instead of pd drones
- Kratos gains a bit better flux stats
- Pallas now costs significantly less, has 360 deg shield and a bit better flux stats
- Catcher drones (for Orion and Thanatos) are now much faster
- Interdiction suite now affects catcher drones owned by the ship with hullmod
- Removed one launch bay from Aidos
- Scylla has a new system: energized armour
- Fixed the "same system descriptions" issue
- PBC now offers commission
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HELMUT

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2015, 10:23:20 AM »

Those buffs are good, i think. In my current campaign, i decided to harass PBC convoys and patrols. And i found them to be easy preys.

I hope they'll be able to defend themselves better in this update. The needlers drones for the Gaia sounds quite scary. And that destroyer looks good, as expected from you.
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2015, 04:31:57 PM »

Really liking the slight buffs.

Imo Kratos is still a better ship than Theseus ( maybe my playstyle) but that special ability on the Theseus is veryyyyy unique, Well thought out!

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Weltall

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2015, 08:56:03 PM »

I am glad I found your mod from the Nexerelin list, especially because you have some really nice designs. But I wanted to say that you should message Alex and ask him to add your mod on the mod index list. Everyone should be able to find your nice mod :) Really awesome work. Thank you!
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Ignorance is bliss..

celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2015, 01:33:26 AM »

I am glad I found your mod from the Nexerelin list, especially because you have some really nice designs. But I wanted to say that you should message Alex and ask him to add your mod on the mod index list. Everyone should be able to find your nice mod :) Really awesome work. Thank you!
I always had the feeling that I have forgotten something =) I always just look through threads in mods section when I search for new mods, forgot that we actually have the index. Thanks for noticing that, I'll PM Alex.
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Gezzaman

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #57 on: January 03, 2016, 04:53:22 PM »

been playing PBC for weeks now and nearly conquered the whole system :D

small suggestion,

PBC is somewhat lacking in a Cruiser / Capital heavy missile platform.

The Moros is an absolute BEAST easily taking on onslaughts/ Victory / Conquests etc.

It is slightly annoying to go back to the PBC base from hyperspace as most of the time it is on the other side of the map.... Many major faction has it's main base right near a worm hole.
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celestis

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2016, 12:13:22 AM »

If I remember correct, both base and WH are just orbiting star, so maybe you just weren't lucky enough to have them close. Anyway, I'll think of a solution to that.
As for ships, there is still a lot to be done. I currently have an intention to make a capital carrier, so maybe it will be a missile boat as well.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.7.1a] Pegasus Belt Council v1.3 (update 2015-12-15)
« Reply #59 on: January 11, 2016, 10:28:00 AM »

Orion just needs to be early specced in Helmsman and unstable injector..problem solved.

Not all ships or factions will suit all playstyles, but ive found the update to PBC council quite playable, even with Nex and SS+. They are holding there own by lvl 36 in the campaign mode.

Btw, the Morai is my flagship....such a sweet spot between speed and adaptability:).
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