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Author Topic: Expanded Battles  (Read 107934 times)

Tartiflette

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #105 on: October 04, 2015, 09:05:12 AM »

That's the new frigate David showed in his "Trouble with Greeble" blog post.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #106 on: October 04, 2015, 09:16:56 AM »

This is kind of far back, but I just noticed a new looking ship in the first screenshot. Second row of the pirate fleet all the way to the right.
Yea, I noticed it too, but I agreed with Tart that it looks like the same ship that David posted and thus has been discovered before. :)
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Linnis

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #107 on: October 04, 2015, 09:39:31 AM »

This is kind of far back, but I just noticed a new looking ship in the first screenshot. Second row of the pirate fleet all the way to the right.
Yea, I noticed it too, but I agreed with Tart that it looks like the same ship that David posted and thus has been discovered before. :)

On that topic that looks like the front end of a ship... A larger body it might be attached to.

*tinfoil on*
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Alex

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2015, 10:21:10 AM »

Going a bit off topic, but: If a boarded ship is broken-down enough (increased hull repair costs, D hullmods, and/or you might even have to to some work on it to use it in combat at all), the costs to reverse the damage could thin the margin between buying and boarding pretty quickly.

That's a very good point, will keep it in mind.



To Alex: are you intending to add missions that make use of this mechanic, or revise existing missions to make use of this mechanic if such would make sense? Oh, and could we get a different color for the allied units? I think the yellow used for allied units is a bit too close to the green used for the ships the player owns; perhaps blue would work better? Or perhaps stick the friend/foe/ally colors into the options menu with a few predetermined options, so the player can configure it themselves?

Not for this update, at least. As I mentioned in an earlier reply, it's not 100% supported in missions - it mostly works, but some of the battle-end conditions (i.e. "you retreated but your allies haven't" aren't being handled properly.


Alex, how do allies get implemented for the enemy side?  Is it just added into one big fleet?  Do separate commander AIs run their ships?  If not, do the CP get added together?

One big fleet, isAlly() returns false on all ships, one admiral AI in charge using the CPs of the commander of the "primary" fleet, which is either the first fleet on that side in the battle, or the largest fleet if that one is not present.


I think the yellow looks quite different.

However, people with most sorts of color-weakness or color-blindness will disagree.
agreed, the yellow looks fine to me, but many people have problems distinguishing green from yellow at a glance, especially when both are at low saturation, like in this ui. and blue is probably a bad idea because much of the ui / background itself is a light blue.
what about a pink-ish purple? it might not be the most intuitive color for "ally", but i think neither is yellow. and it should provide good contrast to both the player's green and the hostile's rusty orange.

although ultimately all three parties can still be distinguished solely on the square, rhombus and circle shapes, even for people who wouldn't be able to see colors at all.
Well yellow has been the long industry standard for allies in rts games.

Right - it's standard, also distinguishable by shape, and there's text ("allied" on the reticle) where the shape doesn't show up. In color-blind mode, it uses gray instead.


also, hello forum!^^

been lurking for some time, finally decided to actually post. so excited for the coming update! :]

Hi, and welcome to the forum :)
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Zudgemud

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2015, 10:25:05 AM »

Regarding boarding, an idea could be to make it a lot more "guaranteed", but you get a ruined but towable hulk that can either be scrapped for cash or restored over a few days at a friendly shipyard for a significant sum (like, 0.8*hullcost, pay more if you dont want to risk ending up with a D-variant or something), alternatively a slower supply based restoration in your fleet if you have construction rigs in your fleet. 

What would be really fabulous would be if I could ram my valkyrie into an enemy ship and enter a top down boarding minigame though, but it feels like these things are not really within the scope of this game :)
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Debido

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #110 on: October 04, 2015, 11:00:04 AM »

Regarding boarding, an idea could be to make it a lot more "guaranteed", but you get a ruined but towable hulk that can either be scrapped for cash or restored over a few days at a friendly shipyard for a significant sum (like, 0.8*hullcost, pay more if you dont want to risk ending up with a D-variant or something), alternatively a slower supply based restoration in your fleet if you have construction rigs in your fleet. 

What would be really fabulous would be if I could ram my valkyrie into an enemy ship and enter a top down boarding minigame though, but it feels like these things are not really within the scope of this game :)

Actually that isn't a bad idea. If the number of ships you could bring back were related to say, the number of tugs you had it may effect the gameplay too. For instance you may need 1 tug for a frigate and up to four frigates for a single capital just to get to burn speed 1 back to a friendly base to refurbish the ship.

Part of the meaningful choice here is that your fleet will be reduced to burn speed 1...or maybe reduced by a significant amount...either way the lower burn speed leaves you vulnerable to attack and you may need to abandon the ship you captured as the enemy is returning for revenge...
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Sy

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #111 on: October 04, 2015, 11:28:27 AM »

Hi, and welcome to the forum :)
ty :]

Part of the meaningful choice here is that your fleet will be reduced to burn speed 1...or maybe reduced by a significant amount...either way the lower burn speed leaves you vulnerable to attack and you may need to abandon the ship you captured as the enemy is returning for revenge...
that sounds neat. i think burn 1 might be too slow, considering even capitals will go by something like ~7 or so with the update, iirc. maybe 2 or 3? or alternatively, remove the number of tugs needed as a strict rule, but make speed depend on that (up to tug speed -1 or something like that, if you have a significant number).
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Tartiflette

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #112 on: October 04, 2015, 11:45:16 AM »

While adding more player agency in boarding would be really nice, what I'd really like to see is salvaging. Unlike boarding it would consist in towing a disabled hulk of your choosing (between a few "salvageable" ships) with tugs to the nearest star-port equipped with a drydock (a new economy building). There you could restore it. In addition, having a construction rig in the fleet could allow to repair some of the engines giving the hull a burn of one instead of 0, leaving you the choice to use either tugs or rigs or both. The hull complete repair would cost the same or even a bit more than buying a new ship, but it could allows the player to build a decent fleet without having to farm reputation with every factions and then visit all the markets hopping to find the right ship. And given that towing would be slow, it would be quite dangerous to do so in an hostile system but very rewarding (especially with the sensor update coming).
So more player control over witch ship get salvaged, more use for the tugs and rigs, and more reasons to wage war upon non pirates factions!

Next to that the current boarding stay mostly as it is, but like Gothars suggested only for surrendered ships. Those could be in a much better state, but you may have to overcome some defenses.

On the other hand I'm not into the idea of in-combat boarding as it could be confusing and easily exploitable (see Homeworld's ion frigates armada).
Seems relevant.
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Zudgemud

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #113 on: October 04, 2015, 12:01:27 PM »

^ Cool beans, even more elaborate.

As long as you can use boarding/salvaging to acquire otherwise locked out faction ships in a way that costs more in effort, cash and controllable risk taking than buying them from a friendly faction. To tie utility ships into it all would be great, as they currently have very small niches. Also I personally love utility ships, cant wait for industry to be implemented :)
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SteelSoldier

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #114 on: October 04, 2015, 12:46:14 PM »

Awesome, looking forward to the Expanded Battles, I am generally a fan of only having a very small squadron of ships, like 1 Cruiser and 1-2 Frigates, so battles like this really suit my playstyle more, where I do not want specifically to be the largest force but still be able to provide some support to the other ships and get some rewards out of it.
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SatchelCharge

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #115 on: October 04, 2015, 12:48:40 PM »

Quite an update we're in for. Thanks for hard work as always Alex.
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #116 on: October 04, 2015, 01:24:23 PM »

Taking into consideration the speed of the past few blog posts (and the surprising speed they're coming out with), I predict the release of this magnificent update in 10 days, give or take 3 days.

Our efforts at persuading Alex to revamp boarding seem to be feeble, heh.  That aside, Alex, has boarding been completely removed from the game or simply turned off?  Can we still enable it with mods, for example?
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TJJ

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #117 on: October 04, 2015, 04:39:37 PM »

Well yellow has been the long industry standard for allies in rts games.

Yeah, whoever devised such an unconventional colour scheme has a lot to answer for!
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Talkie Toaster

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2015, 04:42:32 PM »

Taking into consideration the speed of the past few blog posts (and the surprising speed they're coming out with), I predict the release of this magnificent update in 10 days, give or take 3 days.

Our efforts at persuading Alex to revamp boarding seem to be feeble, heh.  That aside, Alex, has boarding been completely removed from the game or simply turned off?  Can we still enable it with mods, for example?
Well as an order-of-magnitude estimate that's probably correct...
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CrashToDesktop

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Re: Expanded Battles
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2015, 04:53:45 PM »

Well as an order-of-magnitude estimate that's probably correct...
Have some hope my friend.  I can smell it, it's that close.
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