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[Adraius]

A bit of an update - added damage tracking, so that:

1) Your share of salvage, bounties, and possible reputation gains depends entirely on the hull damage your ships have dealt compared to your allies, and
2) Friendly fire will be punished with reputation loss.

Minor incidents (i.e. a couple of hundred damage to a Lasher) will be ignored. Accidentally torpedoing a Hound might be a few points, in addition to forfeiting any reputation gains from helping. Killing a friendly Onslaught all by yourself will insta-drop it down to hostile. Finishing off a friendly Onslaught that was down to a sliver won't.

The threshold for friendly fire also depends on how important your help is, so if you're, say, helping out against terrible odds, you might get away with accidentally torpedoing a Hound. If you're "helping" a patrol chase down a lone pirate, torpedoing the same Hound will be looked at with less understanding.

The goal here isn't to make the mechanics here something the player interacts with in the course of normal gameplay, and there's no good gameplay reason to shoot up your allies. The rules above are more about not kicking in unnecessarily, while kicking in occasionally for "believability" reasons.

Literally perfect IMO.  Great working and thanks for letting us know!

Edited for text derp.

[Gothars]

A bit of an update - added damage tracking, so that:

1) Your share of salvage, bounties, and possible reputation gains depends entirely on the hull damage your ships have dealt compared to your allies, and
2) Friendly fire will be punished with reputation loss.

Minor incidents (i.e. a couple of hundred damage to a Lasher) will be ignored. Accidentally torpedoing a Hound might be a few points, in addition to forfeiting any reputation gains from helping. Killing a friendly Onslaught all by yourself will insta-drop it down to hostile. Finishing off a friendly Onslaught that was down to a sliver won't.

The threshold for friendly fire also depends on how important your help is, so if you're, say, helping out against terrible odds, you might get away with accidentally torpedoing a Hound. If you're "helping" a patrol chase down a lone pirate, torpedoing the same Hound will be looked at with less understanding.

The goal here isn't to make the mechanics here something the player interacts with in the course of normal gameplay, and there's no good gameplay reason to shoot up your allies. The rules above are more about not kicking in unnecessarily, while kicking in occasionally for "believability" reasons.

Great, that seems solid    (Tracking shield/armor damage for positive reputation would be totally exploitable.)
I assume hitting an ally's armor or shields doesn't have any consequences?

Is damage tracked only per fleet or also per ship? Per ship "damage dealt" statistics would be very interesting to have...

[Aeson]

Wait a hound can survive a torpedo?

Yes, if you've equipped it with a shield generator.

It might possibly survive without shields if you've put all the HP and armor-boosting hullmods on it (540 armor and 3400 HP, not including skill bonuses), especially if you also have the character skills to further boost armor, though I'm not sure even all of that is sufficient. Of course, such a Hound would probably die to a stiff breeze after taking a torpedo hit even if this did allow the Hound to 'survive' the torpedo.

[Alex]

I assume hitting an ally's armor or shields doesn't have any consequences?

None whatsoever.

Is damage tracked only per fleet or also per ship? Per ship "damage dealt" statistics would be very interesting to have...

It's tracked per fleet member, but it doesn't track shield/armor damage, and doesn't display it anywhere. The hull damage data is available for mods, though.

[Sy]

is there an option to refuse letting an ally join into your battle? it could be annoying to track down a pirate fleet for salvage and bounty, just to find out that a large allied fleet in range will swoop in and take most of the loot, even in a battle you would've easily won without their support.

likewise, an attacking allied pirate or bounty hunter might be fine with a small player fleet lending a hand and taking a small amount of loot even in a rather one-sided battle, but probably wouldn't appreciate a powerful player fleet 'helping' and stealing all the loot by dominating the battle.

[Megas]

I am greedy, especially for XP and loot that includes rare weapons.  I would not like a meddling Hegemony fleet "helping" me grind some pirates and steal my kills and loot.

[Alex]

You can't refuse help, no.

I did consider this - imo, there are already ways of dealing with it, as you don't have to engage enemies near fleets that will help, and you can make sure to do the most damage besides (which, realistically, you probably will if you didn't need help in the first place). Finally, nearby fleets won't try to help if you've already got the advantage.

[Sy]

i don't think dealing the majority of hull damage as a player is a given in any battle you'd win without problems, if the allied fleet is much larger. a lone player controlled Medusa with some combat skills can take on a rather sizeable pirate fleet, by whittling them down one by one. it's not that difficult or risky as long as you're patient (and don't overextend just to finish off a wounded Lasher.. <.<) but it can take a while (Hardened Subsystems hullmod is probably a good idea).
if the allied fleet has a bunch of destroyers and frigates, and maybe some fighters/bombers or cruisers as well, they would probably steamroll the pirates and do most of the hull damage in that fight.

ai fleets just not joining battles that seem a sure victory should definitely help, although it depends on what they would consider as such a "sure victory". would they help said lone Medusa against a bunch of (D)-designated destroyers and frigates?^^ probably, considering a pirate fleet of that size also tends to initiate battles against the player that it won't win.

but then again, i guess the problem here is more with a single player controlled ship being so powerful (at least against very low-tech enemies) rather than with the expanded battles mechanics themselves.

just not initiating such battles while allied fleets are in range obviously gets rid of this problem, just seems to me it would feel weird to have to do that.

[Ranakastrasz]

If you slaughter your "Allies" in battle, will they turn on you, or can you kill them to the last ship, then the enemy, and take all the loot from all sides?

I don't think this is actually possible to accomplish without modded OP ships, but it would be hilarious.

I could imagine this as a workaround to breaking ties with another faction, and crippling at least one of their fleets in the process.

[Megas]

It is like Sy wrote.  With max Combat and Technology, I am good at demolishing non-bounty fleets with a couple Wolves or Medusa, and I do not want a meddling fleet stealing my kills.  No, I cannot kill such pirate fleets immediately, it takes time to do so.

[Thaago]

Hmmm... perhaps if our transponders are off the allies won't know who we are, so won't "help" when we don't want them to? Or some other preference from that set?

[Gothars]

If you slaughter your "Allies" in battle, will they turn on you, or can you kill them to the last ship, then the enemy, and take all the loot from all sides?

You won't get loot from killing allies, only lose reputation. They won't turn on you during the battle, though.

[Alex]

i don't think dealing the majority of hull damage as a player is a given in any battle you'd win without problems, if the allied fleet is much larger. a lone player controlled Medusa with some combat skills can take on a rather sizeable pirate fleet, by whittling them down one by one. it's not that difficult or risky as long as you're patient (and don't overextend just to finish off a wounded Lasher.. <.<) but it can take a while (Hardened Subsystems hullmod is probably a good idea).
if the allied fleet has a bunch of destroyers and frigates, and maybe some fighters/bombers or cruisers as well, they would probably steamroll the pirates and do most of the hull damage in that fight.

It is like Sy wrote.  With max Combat and Technology, I am good at demolishing non-bounty fleets with a couple Wolves or Medusa, and I do not want a meddling fleet stealing my kills.  No, I cannot kill such pirate fleets immediately, it takes time to do so.

From a purely mechanical point of view, this situationally encourages a more aggressive playstyle, which I think is good. It's good to have an extra reason to mix up your tactics.

just not initiating such battles while allied fleets are in range obviously gets rid of this problem, just seems to me it would feel weird to have to do that.

Yeah, I hear you. On the one hand, it's maybe a bit gamey. On the other hand, being able to pick and choose what fleets you allow to join would be a pain for the player, also gamey (do you imagine an official patrol would really take "no, I got this" for an answer?), and much more complex to implement.

ai fleets just not joining battles that seem a sure victory should definitely help, although it depends on what they would consider as such a "sure victory". would they help said lone Medusa against a bunch of (D)-designated destroyers and frigates?^^ probably, considering a pirate fleet of that size also tends to initiate battles against the player that it won't win.

but then again, i guess the problem here is more with a single player controlled ship being so powerful (at least against very low-tech enemies) rather than with the expanded battles mechanics themselves.

They consider your (and your officer's) levels, but yeah, even so, it's very much going to err on the side of being safe.

Hmmm... perhaps if our transponders are off the allies won't know who we are, so won't "help" when we don't want them to? Or some other preference from that set?

Oh, right, forgot about that. Yes, if your transponder is off *and* they don't know who you are (i.e. didn't see you recently with the transponder on) then they won't join. And won't let you join an ongoing battle. But running with your transponder off in full view of patrols is generally not a good idea - you're only going to get away with it in independent space.

[Wild Card]

Could it be done so that you loose more or less reputation depending on how much rep/how much dmg you do to the allied fleet ?

For Example : you should loose more rep if you have high rep to start with and you blow up (intentional or otherwise) an ally ship. So if you backstab your ally with which you have 80 rep, and blow up 1 or 2 of his ships you should go to negative.

Or a loss of rep based on the actual dmg you do ( 1% 2% 3% etc...) to the allied fleet (or on a ship to ship basis)

If there`s no way of them becoming hostile...could you make them retreat ? As in trying to retreat and reorganize to face the new threat (the backstabbing **** player

As for friendly fire...in a fight with loads of ships missiles etc strafing around one or two missed shots should not penalize you that much.

[SafariJohn]

you're only going to get away with it in independent space.

And pirate space! Arr!