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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Hyperspace Topography (10/12/22)

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What do you desire most?

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More weapons
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Something else?
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Author Topic: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19  (Read 414508 times)

Kitfox88

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #405 on: December 01, 2019, 11:23:28 AM »

Both the OP link and that return this to me for some reason.

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
<Error>
<Code>AccessDenied</Code>
<Message>Request has expired</Message>
<Expires>2019-11-02T11:14:04Z</Expires>
<ServerTime>2019-12-01T19:22:00Z</ServerTime>
<RequestId>02739B0DF9BF5B34</RequestId>
<HostId>
pHuzDhFySCMwGz5711RUgD32leu0eTNZkAZLy1KayyvePi8al83cyQm3OTNFdX9KWG4hwkhAgjo=
</HostId>
</Error>

Disabled ublock and all that too, so I have no idea what's up, blagh
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #406 on: December 01, 2019, 05:36:14 PM »

Not a very useful post but... Thanx a lot for the mod !

It blends PERFECTLY into the universe. It's insane.

I really like the "continious barrage" weapon design.

Regards.
Thank you!


Oh hm, it seems the download link was non-functional for a while earlier but I just now tried it myself and also asked someone else to and seems it is working fine now. I'll see about setting up a mirror download link sometime, but for now Kulverstukass it would be appreciated if you could edit your post to remove your upload of the mod :)

DemonicSquid

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #407 on: December 17, 2019, 10:35:17 AM »

Your download link is still non-functioning.

I've noticed recently that many bit.ly links have stopped working not just yours - regardless of ad blocking, pop-up settings etc. Could you add a link that doesn't use bit.ly, please, pretty please with pulse lasers on?
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Avanitia

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #408 on: December 17, 2019, 03:07:40 PM »

Your download link is still non-functioning.

I've noticed recently that many bit.ly links have stopped working not just yours - regardless of ad blocking, pop-up settings etc. Could you add a link that doesn't use bit.ly, please, pretty please with pulse lasers on?

That's really weird - I just checked the link and it downloads and works just fine on my end.
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DemonicSquid

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #409 on: December 17, 2019, 05:50:09 PM »

Your download link is still non-functioning.

I've noticed recently that many bit.ly links have stopped working not just yours - regardless of ad blocking, pop-up settings etc. Could you add a link that doesn't use bit.ly, please, pretty please with pulse lasers on?

That's really weird - I just checked the link and it downloads and works just fine on my end.

It's something up with bit.ly. It's not been reliable for a while regardless of where I am in the world or what machine I'm using. Am quite certain it works for some and not for others, why is a bit of a mystery. It's annoying because alot of people I work with use it (they also have variable success) :(

EDIT: tinyurl works ok.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #410 on: December 18, 2019, 10:26:33 PM »

Sorry for the late reply and action, been crazy preoccupied with various things. Put up a mirror link download in the OP, though it is MediaFire (with no Bitly processing), so I would strongly recommend not using the mirror download unless the primary one is malfunctioning for some reason at the time... As MediaFire is awful heh.

e

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #411 on: December 20, 2019, 03:36:03 PM »

I don't like using many factions in my play through and when i see a faction that feels too out of place with the world of starsector i am quickly to uninstall.

That being said, this has quickly forced it's way into becoming my favorite modded faction. Specially like the ship designs, the faction theme and the music, but what i like the most is the weapons, i am totally on board with this gun philosophy of "if one gun doesn't work, just add a couple more." and, judging by the poll, i am of the minority that would like to see more Tiandong brand guns.

I do have a few gripes thought:
1.- The Xu-class i really like it and to be honest, it is a respectable ship on the hands of the player, but if you give it to the AI, it'll squander it's one massive advantage which is it's ability, since the AI doesn't realize it should activate Flux Override when it's under pressure instead of all the time and ends up depleting it's charges quickly, this unfortunately makes it not very good as an officer ship because it's so easy for the ai to waste what makes it good, because without the ability, it just doesn't have the flux to justify all those guns.
2.- The Wuzhang i haven't found a good situation where it can actually excel, sure it deals A LOT of damage with that massive gun of his, but it is too easy for it to get destroyed in my experience, no matter what amount of escort or waypoint i put into it. This is most likely me not knowing how to use it properly so i would appreciate some tips for it.
3.- This is more personal taste than anything, but i think it would be better if the Heavy Mauler fired in a constant fashion instead of firing in a burst all at once.

Thanks!
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #412 on: December 20, 2019, 07:22:14 PM »

I don't like using many factions in my play through and when i see a faction that feels too out of place with the world of starsector i am quickly to uninstall.

That being said, this has quickly forced it's way into becoming my favorite modded faction. Specially like the ship designs, the faction theme and the music, but what i like the most is the weapons, i am totally on board with this gun philosophy of "if one gun doesn't work, just add a couple more." and, judging by the poll, i am of the minority that would like to see more Tiandong brand guns.
Thank you! And I do intend to add a some more weapons to the faction, don't worry about that it will happen when time and I think what is planned folks will enjoy :)

1.- The Xu-class i really like it and to be honest, it is a respectable ship on the hands of the player, but if you give it to the AI, it'll squander it's one massive advantage which is it's ability, since the AI doesn't realize it should activate Flux Override when it's under pressure instead of all the time and ends up depleting it's charges quickly, this unfortunately makes it not very good as an officer ship because it's so easy for the ai to waste what makes it good, because without the ability, it just doesn't have the flux to justify all those guns.
The thing is the AI already is hesitant to use the ship system when only lightly pressured. Least in my tests watching the AI, it is far more likely to use it when facing a peer-level combatant or when it is being swarmed. While it is much less likely to use it in a low-intensity fight. Can you show me any examples of when you think it is being wasted?

2.- The Wuzhang i haven't found a good situation where it can actually excel, sure it deals A LOT of damage with that massive gun of his, but it is too easy for it to get destroyed in my experience, no matter what amount of escort or waypoint i put into it. This is most likely me not knowing how to use it properly so i would appreciate some tips for it.
I mean I can't suggest too much. Just make sure it has escorts, or fighter screen, or is part of a line battle where in general it has lots of stuff covering for it so that it can lay into things with the Macro Cannon from relative safety. Not sure what else to say to be honest, personally I have never seen them have too many issues least when it isn't deployed in overly unfavorable situations.

3.- This is more personal taste than anything, but i think it would be better if the Heavy Mauler fired in a constant fashion instead of firing in a burst all at once.
This was once considered and even tested but the problem with that idea is two-fold. Well, I think it is more fun when burst firing but more importantly? It would allow controlling its rate of fire too easily negating the primary disadvantage the weapon has which keeps it balanced. Its horrid accuracy! Heh, it is what it is.

Anyways, I do appreciate the feedback DarkOmega and will be mulling over all of it some more but yea if you can give me anymore info regarding the stuff and my replies? Much appreciated.

Avanitia

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #413 on: December 20, 2019, 07:29:31 PM »

3.- This is more personal taste than anything, but i think it would be better if the Heavy Mauler fired in a constant fashion instead of firing in a burst all at once.

If it fired as long as trigger is held, I feel it would be a bit too similar to Ultra Autocannon. I know that UAC has kinetic damage and Mauler Battery is HE, but still, they would be very similar to each other, while now they have their own uses.

UAC can pressure enemies from large range, use Mauler Battery for more precise hits on armor.
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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #414 on: December 20, 2019, 08:07:00 PM »

The thing is the AI already is hesitant to use the ship system when only lightly pressured. Least in my tests watching the AI, it is far more likely to use it when facing a peer-level combatant or when it is being swarmed. While it is much less likely to use it in a low-intensity fight. Can you show me any examples of when you think it is being wasted?

To be honest, most of the times i've tested myself was during simulation with no officer when i was getting a feel of what the ship had to offer by itself, i haven't been paying attention to it during actual combat with actual high lvl officers with flux related skills on it.

Will be paying more attention to it and if i get something i can show, i'll let you know! :)

I mean I can't suggest too much. Just make sure it has escorts, or fighter screen, or is part of a line battle where in general it has lots of stuff covering for it so that it can lay into things with the Macro Cannon from relative safety. Not sure what else to say to be honest, personally I have never seen them have too many issues least when it isn't deployed in overly unfavorable situations.

The question was more directed to anyone who has played with the mod, i don't actually expect the creator to spoil his own ships. XD

Right now what i'm doing is flux related skills, as well as Gunnery Control AI (Ship and Weapon Pack) which is a must for me since it turns those massive shells from snail speed to "actually having a fair chance at hitting a destroyer/frigate", which isn't ideal in the first place, but i like having the option there. It's kind of an odd satisfaction seeing a frigate getting one shot by a bullet almost as big as it's ship.

This was once considered and even tested but the problem with that idea is two-fold. Well, I think it is more fun when burst firing but more importantly? It would allow controlling its rate of fire too easily negating the primary disadvantage the weapon has which keeps it balanced. Its horrid accuracy! Heh, it is what it is.

If it fired as long as trigger is held, I feel it would be a bit too similar to Ultra Autocannon. I know that UAC has kinetic damage and Mauler Battery is HE, but still, they would be very similar to each other, while now they have their own uses.

UAC can pressure enemies from large range, use Mauler Battery for more precise hits on armor.

Don't worry, as i said, it was more of a personal taste, the mauler as it is right now it's really useful because of that massive range.

Anyways, I do appreciate the feedback DarkOmega and will be mulling over all of it some more but yea if you can give me anymore info regarding the stuff and my replies? Much appreciated.

No man, thank you! ;)
Whatever you have planned i'm sure will be pretty solid. Looking forward to that! ;D
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NorthernWatch

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #415 on: December 20, 2019, 09:54:55 PM »

is it me or the Xu Pocket Battleship always fires its main cannon when firing its sides? I or my other ships tend to get hit from its shots therefore I havent had any frontal weaponry for it and I seem to notice this is weaker than the Conquest?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #416 on: December 20, 2019, 10:05:53 PM »

Never seen that behavior myself, you didn't put the front large hardpoints in the same weapon group as the broadsides did you?

Also... *sighs*. So many folks disagree on the power-level of the Xu. Some say it is strong enough and fine, some think it is a bit on the weak side, and some think it is pathetic and a clear downgrade from the Conquest. While the ship perhaps could get some more balance tweaks here and there, I believe the truth is entirely less clear-cut and sits within shades of gray.

It has no relation to the Conquest at all, it forks even more from the base hull than pretty much every other THI retrofit ship. It is not a speedy battlecruiser, darting in and out of battlelines firing missile fusillades and constantly changing its facing to the enemy with tricky broadsides. And nor is it a brutish battleship meant to face other capitals head on.

It is a artillery ship, it is your Best Friend offering fire support from-afar. With its prodigious ballistic arsenal that is strong in every direction but directly aft. When given cover from fellow fleet assets so that it doesn't get faced down in close-combat with a peer level capital ship? It sits back and delivers ballistic fire support beyond that which any vanilla capital ship offers. It is Guns, The Ship. Don't directly compare it to the Conquest, or an Onslaught, or whatever mod capital or high tech ship you like. Look at it from the angle of its own strengths and weaknesses.


Anyways, if anyone has suggested balance tweaks for it? I am all ears, but I believe if it needs any (and I am considering some), they would be fairly subtle in nature since I truly believe anyone who thinks it is weak simply does not understand and or appreciate what the ship is about.

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #417 on: December 20, 2019, 11:45:07 PM »

Never seen that behavior myself, you didn't put the front large hardpoints in the same weapon group as the broadsides did you?

Also... *sighs*. So many folks disagree on the power-level of the Xu. Some say it is strong enough and fine, some think it is a bit on the weak side, and some think it is pathetic and a clear downgrade from the Conquest. While the ship perhaps could get some more balance tweaks here and there, I believe the truth is entirely less clear-cut and sits within shades of gray.

It has no relation to the Conquest at all, it forks even more from the base hull than pretty much every other THI retrofit ship. It is not a speedy battlecruiser, darting in and out of battlelines firing missile fusillades and constantly changing its facing to the enemy with tricky broadsides. And nor is it a brutish battleship meant to face other capitals head on.

It is a artillery ship, it is your Best Friend offering fire support from-afar. With its prodigious ballistic arsenal that is strong in every direction but directly aft. When given cover from fellow fleet assets so that it doesn't get faced down in close-combat with a peer level capital ship? It sits back and delivers ballistic fire support beyond that which any vanilla capital ship offers. It is Guns, The Ship. Don't directly compare it to the Conquest, or an Onslaught, or whatever mod capital or high tech ship you like. Look at it from the angle of its own strengths and weaknesses.


Anyways, if anyone has suggested balance tweaks for it? I am all ears, but I believe if it needs any (and I am considering some), they would be fairly subtle in nature since I truly believe anyone who thinks it is weak simply does not understand and or appreciate what the ship is about.

I think i should elaborate on the point i made a little better myself and other people should do that also:

Personally, the very first time i handled the Xu, it was very clear to me that this was nothing at all like the Conquest, if anything, a closer comparison would be the Victory from Ship and Weapon pack:
-Both have two fixed frontal guns.
-Both are meant to be slow and bulky.
-Both are offensive power houses.
-Both turn relatively slowly

Now for the key differences:
-Victory is more expensive to field at 55 DP vs 40 DP from Xu
-Victory has no hard points and instead uses built-in weapons which, arguably, generally outperform the Xu's hardpoints, depending on it's frontal loadout. This should be fine since it costs more.
-Victory has noticeably more natural flux capacity and venting so on the stat screen a person will look at the Xu's flux capacity and compare it with a conquest and will think it's a downgrade, more guns, but less flux and a lot of people probably don't realize that the ability the ship has plays a big factor on keeping this bountiful firepower going.

I think the main problem is from the transition to Conquest to Xu, people feel like they lost a lot of stuff like mobility, (which, seriously, just looking at the Xu you instantly expect it to be slow and bulky, so shouldn't be a surprise to anyone) and flux capacity (Already mentioned ability's importance).

Does the Xu need tweaking?
If you use it as a player, not really, a player will have to know how to manage the Xu's flux by depending on the ability. Keep in mind that we are talking about a faction that incorporates regular ships into it's roster, so, oddly enough, the Xu will perform well if it's accompanied by Conquests, which really goes into the spirit of the original conquest, a conquest will never win alone and this same philosophy is true for the Xu. I wouldn't give it to an officer thought, because i don't trust the AI to make good choices with the flux management.

Can the Xu be improved?
Totally, but for at a modest cost of 40 dp you get a pretty decent ship with an absurd amount of guns.

Is it fair to compare the Xu with the Conquest?
Absolutely NOT, it's like wanting to compare the Astral with the Legion, just because they are both carriers when they perform incredibly different roles. The Xu was built by a faction who's logic is "more guns = more better" and to their credit, that logic works for them. The Xu isn't meant to be perfect, it's meant to carry more guns and not just any guns, but the guniest of guns.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this helps give more clarity to what i meant to say in my last post and more people should give their feedback and what they feel it lacks and/or how it can improve.

Personally i am fine with the Xu as is.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:50:29 PM by DarkOmegaMK2 »
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NorthernWatch

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #418 on: December 21, 2019, 10:01:56 PM »

Apparently the Xu isnt the only ship in my game that fires its frontal weaponry when it faces the enemy to its sides to allow broadside bombardment, I had an issue with the Banshee Norm aswell where when it faces to the side any ally that gets in the way of Frontal Weapons will get shot at, I might have to look at the Weapon grouping as I always do the Auto Link anyways and its AI control not player.

even annoying is lately alot of my ships tend to stand infront of me when Im trying to kill the enemy.
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Deageon

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #419 on: January 14, 2020, 08:36:08 PM »

I spent a while looking for the damn thing and now I'm annoyed, how deep into the nebula around Shanghai is the mysterious entity thing I got a quest for?
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