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Starsector 0.9.1a is out! (05/10/19); Updated the Forum Rules and Guidelines (02/29/20); Blog post: GIF Roundup (04/11/20)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19  (Read 262225 times)

eidolad

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #465 on: May 12, 2020, 04:41:14 PM »

Holy crap NOPE still missing more secrets...I must find for the precious!

In regards to your feedback on my spoilery stuff:   agreed good stuff and yup easy to come up with ideas...hard to scope them correctly.

Some more feedback from my game 3/4s the way to my first colony in a Nex game with many of the major faction mods installed (THI, Diable, Dassault-Mikoyan, Imperium, Legacy of Ark, Mayasuran Navy, Underworld):

1.   I'm not very knowledgeable about how Nex determines how many markets each faction gets...but it seemed that THI got very few markets compared to other factions.   Especially goodness, the Imperium for example.   I joined THI early and based my operations from Shanghai and that system was well protected...but would love more THI markets.

2.  I think other players have commented similary:   I feel the need, the need for:   THI middle and heavy-weight carrier classes.  It's the middle game when I start thinking about having three middle-weight carriers around just to survive when Luddic Path or a Pirate Armada comes screaming out a hyperspace storm.

Or heck why not:  a dedicated cruiser with built-in flak and special system that could let it survive an Astral/Atropos bomber wing's combined salvo (but maybe not so much the 2nd or third if that Astra is targeting the flak ship  exclusively.  Perhaps the system has limited charges).  Oops there goes my scope creep again...

4.  Loving me those pair of large fwd gun emplacements on the Xu-class...LET'S GO FOR THREE and upgrade that fwd-middle turret mount or change the arcs of the first broadsiders to cover the fwd arc bwahahahaha.   Because with speed 40...I fight the Xu as a line-ship that stands its ground and dashes fwd for kills, rather than swooping in and turning to present broadsides.   So the broadside mounts tend to be empty of ship killers...

5.   Wuzhang-class:   fun, risky, human pilots only.  I cannot imagine the AI doing anything other than dying trying to pilot this thing.   I have yet to go up against a decent station in one of these...looking forward to it!  The knockback of the spinal mount shells is gratifying.

6.  Would like it if Shanghai had a heavy industry...want to sell them a pristine Nanoforge BADLY to up the quality of the THI ships for sale there...

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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #466 on: May 12, 2020, 10:13:35 PM »

1.   I'm not very knowledgeable about how Nex determines how many markets each faction gets...but it seemed that THI got very few markets compared to other factions.   Especially goodness, the Imperium for example.   I joined THI early and based my operations from Shanghai and that system was well protected...but would love more THI markets.
THI is by design, a minor faction. Both in colony count (not counting Nex Random Mode), and expansion speed when Nex is on. Lore wise, this is how things should be. They avoid destruction by being just useful enough, and non threatening enough to be worth keeping around in the eyes of most major factions.

2.  I think other players have commented similary:   I feel the need, the need for:   THI middle and heavy-weight carrier classes.  It's the middle game when I start thinking about having three middle-weight carriers around just to survive when Luddic Path or a Pirate Armada comes screaming out a hyperspace storm.

Or heck why not:  a dedicated cruiser with built-in flak and special system that could let it survive an Astral/Atropos bomber wing's combined salvo (but maybe not so much the 2nd or third if that Astra is targeting the flak ship  exclusively.  Perhaps the system has limited charges).  Oops there goes my scope creep again...
And players role-playing as THI, should do as THI does. And run mixed tech fleets. They don't *need* every ship role since they also use vanilla tech. But in time yes more carrier classes will occur but *need* is a strong word, and they will always roll mixed tech fleets even as their content gets expanded.

That vague cruiser concept, sounds a bit too... "Fancy" for THI.

4.  Loving me those pair of large fwd gun emplacements on the Xu-class...LET'S GO FOR THREE and upgrade that fwd-middle turret mount or change the arcs of the first broadsiders to cover the fwd arc bwahahahaha.   Because with speed 40...I fight the Xu as a line-ship that stands its ground and dashes fwd for kills, rather than swooping in and turning to present broadsides.   So the broadside mounts tend to be empty of ship killers...
The Xu is viable as front towards enemy while loading the sides with PD for days, or as a broadside ship. Entirely dependent on its perhaps to some, daunting loadout capabilities and overall weapon flexibility. No significant changes will be made to the ship, just some tweaks here and there.

5.   Wuzhang-class:   fun, risky, human pilots only.  I cannot imagine the AI doing anything other than dying trying to pilot this thing.   I have yet to go up against a decent station in one of these...looking forward to it!  The knockback of the spinal mount shells is gratifying.
The AI does OK with it, as long as it has enough allied assets to screen for it. It is fairly mobile after all.

6.  Would like it if Shanghai had a heavy industry...want to sell them a pristine Nanoforge BADLY to up the quality of the THI ships for sale there...
That has actually been considered, and still is being mulled over. But is unlikely to occur as I am rather happy with THI's campaign layer balance.
Code
        // TODO: Maybe we could downgrade to heavy industry and give it a corrupted nanoforge?

Histidine

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #467 on: May 12, 2020, 11:02:34 PM »

6.  Would like it if Shanghai had a heavy industry...want to sell them a pristine Nanoforge BADLY to up the quality of the THI ships for sale there...
Shanghai already has an Orbital Works in both random and non-random sector, sell your nanoforge there.
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eidolad

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #468 on: May 13, 2020, 02:51:25 PM »

thanks for the feedback(s)!
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Argonaut

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #469 on: May 16, 2020, 06:51:33 AM »

Just posting to say i like the old art more! More scrappy and metallic, more dark and the Chengdu's launch bay has actual depth to it.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #470 on: May 16, 2020, 08:46:20 PM »

You are entitled to your opinion, but like... Sighs this is a complex subject.

The new art though, is *objectively* better than the old. The old, in many cases had literally impossible Esher-like shapes.


Where if were to hand the art to a 3d modeler and ask them to interpret it directly into a 3d asset? It could not be done as the shapes didn't make sense. They would need to make massive amounts of changes just so it could exist in a virtual physical space. Now everything is well constructed, and can logically exist in a 3d space. While also being less greebly (scrappy in your words), to be more vanilla friendly but it is *still* more greebly than vanilla. Additionally they were way too dark before, to the point that it was problematic.

And regarding the Chengdu specifically? The old one's bay had *too* much depth. Where the edges vanished into a dark void, projecting a shadow that was nearly pure black, also in the presence of bay lights on top of that! Additionally even near the center where it was not shadowed? It was so dark, that it didn't agree with the overall Z axis (height) of the ship! Now it looks like about 1/3 "up" relative to the overall box-hull section which is exactly what makes sense. And it still has significant depth even looking at it in a vacuum! Good edge and contact shadows but without ones so intense that it creates an Escher-space heh.


Anyways, an old friend of mine who mentored me somewhat on art once told me. That outlines, overly intense shadows, blown out highlights, and overall not subtle rendering? Is a crutch to lean on to cover for one's own lack of talent, skill at painting, or neophyte-level design sense. I am far past needing any such crutches, and overall? This conversation reminds me of back when vanilla first started getting de-greebled and a good few folks thought it looks worse. But I would eat my own hat, if many still thought that. They learned the errors of their ways, and perception, as they saw how much more readable the sprites became especially in-game when they are rotated and scaled is a very different thing from looking at a static image.

And in the end? The fact vanilla has moved on, is exactly the reason I have reworked the THI art. THI was always meant to be more greebly than vanilla, but when vanilla got smoothed, it became far too greebly. And the reworks are still more greebly than vanilla, just not to such a comically out of place degree anymore :)

Gwyvern

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #471 on: May 16, 2020, 09:43:22 PM »

Yeah the old sprites were kind of a mess. If you squint and don't look at them too hard, then it will probably look more interesting and eye-catching than the new ones, but once you take the time to sit down and examine them, you realize that what was so 'interesting' about the old sprites was that they were sort of an unmitigated disaster of high-fidelity nonsense that did little beyond the aforementioned catching of the eye, almost like the toy aisle of a grocery store.
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Dazs

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #472 on: May 28, 2020, 04:28:26 AM »

Hello there, I've been away for a bit but when I saw an update to this great mod well here we go again! I have gone back a couple pages but there's 30+ so if this has been asked before, I apologize. Is there a specific reason there are no tankers in Tiadong's ship inventory? I would love to make an expedition fleet of all Faction specific ships but I cannot effectively do that due to their range being limited. Other than that one little thing, this is hands down my favorite faction to hold a commission with.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #473 on: May 28, 2020, 08:43:34 PM »

Evening Dazs. Well lets look at it this way... Does THI need a tanker? They by design use a mix of their own ships and vanilla ones. So what would it really do giving them a tanker from a gameplay standpoint? It sounds mostly like bloat to me. If you are role-playing as THI, then you should do as they do and run mixed tech :)

Also, they in a way do have tankers. Not dedicated ones, but hybrid ships. The Tianshui-Class Light carrier, and Tuolu-Class Missile Destroyer both carry more fuel than is typical for combat ships, especially the Tianshui.

Anyways, if you got a suggestion for a tanker for them that wouldn't in effect just be the vanilla ones but painted green? I am all ears, and do value suggestions.

Dazs

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #474 on: May 29, 2020, 05:41:49 AM »

Well you make some good points there for short to mid exploration but I am talking deep space exploration especially early game when you have a small fleet and a frigate sized THI tanker would be of great value. I play as a scrapper, trader, salvager and I use the Starship Legends mod. Typically the storyteller will talk of a decent ship lost near a star located at the edge of the map. A major factor in taking THI ships is their speed (which helps when going dark to avoid those pesky AI patrols in those sectors) and the ability to pass through nebula which is negated by having to take another factions tanker. Another consideration is that these ships are sometimes in a sector nebula and it takes a bit to find them.

So on a Faction lore of having come from an outskirt sector and boosting profits by salvaging resource, extraction, contract killing and tech mining it would stand to reason they would have had tankers to both get from the outer rim to the core as well as fast access to the resources and tech that are left out in the rim now they are based in the core.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2020, 05:49:10 AM by Dazs »
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AxleMC131

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #475 on: May 29, 2020, 02:57:45 PM »

@Dazs: Re-read Meso's previous message:

... They by design use a mix of their own ships and vanilla ones... If you are role-playing as THI, then you should do as they do and run mixed tech

Interesting suggestions for a THI dedicated tanker aside, Tiandong's response to a "small, early-game tanker" is the vanilla Dram. They're a faction that mixes their own tech with vanilla, and there's nothing wrong about you, the player, reflecting that in your faction playthrough.
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Daynen

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #476 on: June 16, 2020, 12:26:03 PM »

Is there any reason THI ships can somehow lose their immunity to slowing effects?  My 16 speed sustained burn THI-only fleet is suddenly moving at 12 through nebulae and don't know why.

It's not a thing with Starship legends as far as I can tell.  Even the negative traits shouldn't really affect something so specific.  It's also not a supply, fuel or crew issue; I've got plenty of each.  No D-mods on any ship either.  Anyone else experience this?

EDIT: WAIT hang on...nevermind.  Somehow a salvaged ship snuck in and I didn't see it through all the green.  Blargh.

EDIT AGAIN: No, checked again and double checked that every single ship has the retrofit and STILL going 12 instead of 16 in clouds.  What the hails...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 03:17:39 PM by Daynen »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #477 on: June 16, 2020, 06:54:30 PM »

Evening Daynen. Damn, I have never heard of this happening before nor seen it myself. Odd indeed, going to look into it. But first two questions:

Are you *positive* your fleet is comprised only of THI ships?
What is your modlist?

Daynen

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #478 on: June 17, 2020, 05:20:19 PM »

1: yes.  After I noticed this I swapped things out until I had ONLY ships with the tiandong retrofit hullmod.  Still slowed in clouds.

modlist:
another potrait pack
blackrock drive yards
Cari's UI lite
dassault Mikoyan engineering
ED shipyard
hullmods expansion
interstellar imperium
lazylib
legacy of arkgenesis
magiclib
nexerelin
nigijen extend
polaris prime
ship/weapon pack
starship legends
supply forging
terraforming and station construction
Tiandong heavy industries
vayra's sector
vayra's ship pack
version checker
zz graphicslib

Wow.  Those have really piled up...didn't even realize I'd piled on so many...and yes they're all up to date.
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.9.1a-RC8] Tiandong Heavy Industries v1.2.1a - Updated 11/1/19
« Reply #479 on: June 17, 2020, 07:32:08 PM »

That is a uh... An interesting mod list you got there. All right well a couple of thoughts. What nebula were these? Any old nebula, or some special variant added by a mod? As unfortunately there is no way to get if one is in a nebula except by getting the statmod description like so:
Code
            if (statMod.desc != null && statMod.desc.contentEquals("Inside nebula"))
            {
                nebulaMod = statMod;
            }
            else if (statMod.desc != null && statMod.desc.contentEquals("Inside charged nebula"))
            {
                nebulaMod = statMod;
            }
            else if (statMod.desc != null && statMod.desc.contentEquals("Inside charged nebula (storm)"))
            {
                nebulaMod = statMod;
            }
            else if (statMod.desc != null && statMod.desc.contentEquals("Inside atmospheric haze"))
            {
                nebulaMod = statMod;
            }
So in effect I need to support special nebula variants added by mods manually. See all those after the first entry? Those are all mod added special nebula and as far as I know that is all of them but it is possible I missed one or two in the vast Modiverse. So yea what nebula were these, and when in them did it print in the stat card a bit of text that matches any of those?

In addition, some of those mods I am not really super familiar with but as a notable final comment? Hullmod Expansion is known to break scripts in other mods...
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