Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Need more scrap rewards?  (Read 5799 times)

Darloth

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Need more scrap rewards?
« on: February 19, 2012, 03:06:56 PM »

I've been playing 0.5 for a bit (it is awesome and pretty much everything I'd hoped with the exception of a no-limitations ship builder, but that's not really relevant) and I got into a fight with a damaged Astral carrier - it wasn't quite fast enough to run away from me, even though it outran the hegemony.

Anyway, I managed to beat it, and even better got a chance at boarding it! Except, of course, my 10 marines were not sufficient :) - still I thought, no big deal, I only lost a hound to kill this, it'll be worth it anyway.

The only problem was it wasn't. I killed an entire capital ship with an arguably inferior fleet (I only won because it was already damaged) and yet the rewards were meagre - it dropped a single Large weapon and around 1500 worth of computer cores, not nearly enough to pay for the Hound I lost, and that was the cheapest frigate there is.

I've had similar issues where I lost some other frigate or a wing of fighters, and destroyed 4-5 enemy frigates.  Occasionally they'll drop enough fuel and guns and supplies that it almost feels worth it, but it's usually still not enough to recoup any losses - and I considered these great victories, with a minimum of loss!

I'm aware that you want the loss of a ship to feel significant, but right now I think that fighting is -too- destructive. A scrapped ship is worth a pittance of its cost, and rarely drops more than a single weapon mount.   For winning to mean progression, I think that either: They should drop more, possibly most of their weapon mounts, or alternatively they should drop more scrap credits.  Personally I'd favour the first, as you can sell them for cash (but it's not worth full price) or more plausibly, use them on your own ships, expanding your arsenal depending on what you can manage to kill.
Logged

Notacommy

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 11:00:36 PM »

I think there should be a state in between when a ship is functional and when its a melted useless carcass where it is still recognizable as a ship but is extremely fragile allowing you to cap it and steal what you need
I also think shield generators, engines, flux dissipators.

And why dont you guys add ordinance and one time use items like battery packs to power shields when you overload
Logged

SgtAlex86

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 06:09:15 AM »

have to agree generally any fight u loose ship in wil mean loss in overall credits... (unless u stole that ship earlier and didnt pay dime for it)
i mean i had destroyer worth 30k credits on my fleet while i attacked tachion fleet of cruiser,3 frigates,1fighter wing and bomber wing...
lost the destroyer taking out whole enemy fleet had bad roll and didnt capture any ships and ended up with 15k credit hit on my bankroll  :'(
so more credits for kils plz  ;)
Logged

Satyr

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 07:53:59 AM »

I currently like the way it is. If the credit rewards go up to much it would be to easy to amass a large fleet. I expect that once the campaign gets more fleshed out there will be other ways to make money that will help you recoup losses from a botched engagement.
Logged

Ghoti

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 09:06:35 AM »

In my opinion this is actually a huge problem. There should be a certain amount of catharsis from carnage, but as it is now, players are walking on egg shells. Even single ship losses can be catastrophic. Even if you win, you still lose. You lose with fan-fair. That's fine to a degree, but I think players should enjoy combat, rather than dread it.

If you won but most of your fleet was destroyed, where should you be?:
1. near dead, basically back at the beginning again only now with more supplies then you know what to do with.
2. hurt, your fleet size has shrunk visibly.
3. singed, you repaired some of yours and your enemies neutralized craft, most of your crew are dead, but you have lots of hardware.
4. fine, you repaired most of your craft and you took your pick from your enemies.
5. but you won, your fleet just doubled in size.

Right now it's at 1.

I think fun would be at somewhere between 3 and 4.
I'm still looking for a way to mod the scrap rate of craft. It looks like it may be something I can't change.
Logged

Zarcon

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 10:25:20 AM »

In my opinion this is actually a huge problem. There should be a certain amount of catharsis from carnage, but as it is now, players are walking on egg shells. Even single ship losses can be catastrophic. Even if you win, you still lose. You lose with fan-fair. That's fine to a degree, but I think players should enjoy combat, rather than dread it.

If you won but most of your fleet was destroyed, where should you be?:
1. near dead, basically back at the beginning again only now with more supplies then you know what to do with.
2. hurt, your fleet size has shrunk visibly.
3. singed, you repaired some of yours and your enemies neutralized craft, most of your crew are dead, but you have lots of hardware.
4. fine, you repaired most of your craft and you took your pick from your enemies.
5. but you won, your fleet just doubled in size.

Right now it's at 1.

I think fun would be at somewhere between 3 and 4.
I'm still looking for a way to mod the scrap rate of craft. It looks like it may be something I can't change.

I feel like I am walking on eggshells a bit as well, hmm, I tend to save before each battle and reload if I lose a ship. (I know, I'm cheap, ha ha) Clearly there needs to be a little tweaking of the curve here, but I feel that some of this harshness is due to this being early in the process, I think Alex will even it out a bit over time.  :)
Logged
There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

Darloth

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 03:14:27 PM »

I'm sure he will revisit it at some point, but I thought the topic could benefit from a bit more discussion from us as well, so he can see what the vocal minority think of how it is at the moment.

I like Ghoti's scale, and assuming most of the fleet has been disabled, I personally would favour a low 3, possibly even a 2.5 depending on how phyrric the victory was.

Maybe there can be an option for this actually, since post-battle repair / board / scrap chances sound like something that might actually be quite -easy- to change with difficulty level options, as another possibility to fiddling with the actual battle damage numbers.
Logged

SgtAlex86

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 03:21:40 PM »

well curretly it is bloody hard to build fleet without "save scumming" and that means somthings broken u shouldnt need to do it... if ur actually winning with minimal losses... 

Friends dont let friends save scum  ;)
Logged

icepick37

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
  • Go.
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 03:33:42 PM »

Meh. Save scumming in an alpha is totally acceptable. :)
Logged
“I [may] not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
- Voltaire

Ghoti

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 05:12:21 PM »

but this game is going to procedurally generate the universe!

There's a rule in procedurally generated games:
When you save, you exit, and when you die, your save goes away.

MANLY.
Logged

icepick37

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
  • Go.
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 05:29:20 PM »

Well yeah! But none of that is true right now.  :)
Logged
“I [may] not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
- Voltaire

Reshy

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1100
  • White
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 05:38:30 PM »

They're called Pyrrhic Victories, in terms that you win but you still lose.  It might be a good idea to as a difficulty setting have to adjust how much scrap rewards you get.  Currently I think the setting is more befitting of hard difficulty.
Logged

blackfang

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 03:36:53 AM »

I have been playing the entire day, what i earned. Well i earned one ship now and then, i eventually manged to gather enough money to buy a cruiser, then it was pounded in its first battle. I never recovered, the greatest fleet i have owned in several hours of playing was one frigate and two fighter squadrons, they all died horribly in a battle against three frigates and three fighter squads. Even with my entire elite crewed fleet it was still impossible, so you need to acquire a decent fleet and using fighters/bombers is really useless until you get a carrier or two.
Logged

Plasmatic

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
  • Curious no?
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 07:06:17 AM »

I'm sorry if I come off as a bit of an ass.. but I'm not sure how you guys play.. Currently I find the game quite easy.. I lose ships sure, but only ships I've capped from defeated enemies.. the only ships I buy are the ones I personally use and can keep an eye on the entire conflict.

I generally don't run with fighters or carriers.. i usually end up having 2-3 Frigates, 1 Destroyer and maybe a cruiser that I fly myself. I've found that a fleet like that, outfitted right, can take on basically any pirate fleet I find.. Tritach and Hedgemony fleets are a bit harder, but all I do is lure Tritach and hedgemony fleets together and let them thin each other out, then I swoop in for the kill :)

Gotten as much as 15k credits a couple ships (frigates and destroyers) with no loss :) (battle consisted of a heavily damaged onslaught, 2 near dead cruisers of some form, eagles I think.. 3 destroyers, and a couple frigates.

I had one Aurura class Cruiser (GOD that ship is powerful!) 2 Medusa (seriously OP) and a couple Wolf class Frigates (also OP)
Logged
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"
- Maurice Switzer

SgtAlex86

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 272
    • View Profile
Re: Need more scrap rewards?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 07:39:12 AM »

I'm sorry if I come off as a bit of an ass.. but I'm not sure how you guys play.. Currently I find the game quite easy.. I lose ships sure, but only ships I've capped from defeated enemies.. the only ships I buy are the ones I personally use and can keep an eye on the entire conflict.

I generally don't run with fighters or carriers.. i usually end up having 2-3 Frigates, 1 Destroyer and maybe a cruiser that I fly myself. I've found that a fleet like that, outfitted right, can take on basically any pirate fleet I find.. Tritach and Hedgemony fleets are a bit harder, but all I do is lure Tritach and hedgemony fleets together and let them thin each other out, then I swoop in for the kill :)

Gotten as much as 15k credits a couple ships (frigates and destroyers) with no loss :) (battle consisted of a heavily damaged onslaught, 2 near dead cruisers of some form, eagles I think.. 3 destroyers, and a couple frigates.

I had one Aurura class Cruiser (GOD that ship is powerful!) 2 Medusa (seriously OP) and a couple Wolf class Frigates (also OP)
your opinion will change once your fleet increases to size where u cannot baby sit every single frigate while fighting major battle...
and fighting damaged fleets is exeption not the rule...
Logged
Pages: [1] 2