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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Roider Union 1.2.2  (Read 136977 times)

Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2020, 07:24:11 AM »

It seems that regular variants are missing from the custom built Union HQ retrofitting dialogues and a lot of vanilla hulls are missing in general. I know how to fix these but future versions of the mod would revert my changes.
Since most functions are locked behind commission or reputation, this mod hardly offers anything for those who do not plan to be friends with them even if you manage to build your own Union HQ, because retrofitting checks for standing anyway, not to mention the limited options outside Korovin are just meh.
Otherwise being able to retrofit barely combat worthy hulls from the beginning for an affordable price is a fantastic experience and provides very smooth progression. I really enjoy this mod but it makes me pass up every roider hostile faction.
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #121 on: December 10, 2020, 08:06:57 AM »

It seems that regular variants are missing from the custom built Union HQ retrofitting dialogues and a lot of vanilla hulls are missing in general.

Roiders only offer ship conversions that they themselves use. What ships are missing that you expected to see?
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #122 on: December 10, 2020, 10:54:17 AM »

It seems that regular variants are missing from the custom built Union HQ retrofitting dialogues and a lot of vanilla hulls are missing in general.

Roiders only offer ship conversions that they themselves use. What ships are missing that you expected to see?
Korovin is missing Church and some Luddic variants like the Phaeton. Other markets the base Colossus and Mudskipper.
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #123 on: December 10, 2020, 12:14:02 PM »

The Roider Union does not convert ships to other factions' variants. Why would they? That doesn't make any sense.

If you want to make retrofitters for those factions that do those conversions, you should make your own mod that adds that. You are welcome to copy the Roiders' code for it.
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #124 on: December 11, 2020, 07:18:48 AM »

The Roider Union does not convert ships to other factions' variants. Why would they? That doesn't make any sense.
If you want to make retrofitters for those factions that do those conversions, you should make your own mod that adds that. You are welcome to copy the Roiders' code for it.
I didn't say they should. What they do is converting some vanilla luddic variants to their own, but not all. What they also can't do is converting the base Colussus at roider_light but they can convert the luddic version which absolutely makes no sense.
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #125 on: December 11, 2020, 06:02:52 PM »

Ah! I apologize. I misunderstood you.

The only vanilla Pather ships/skins are:
Kite
Brawler
Buffalo (sprited, but not implemented)
Cerberus
Colossus 2
Lasher
Hound
Gremlin
Prometheus

Out of those, only the Colossus 2 can be converted. All the other Pather ships are added by mods which haven't added support for Roider conversions. Same with Church ships.

You can convert the Pather Colossus 2 to the Roider Colossus 2 without Heavy Industry because they are nearly identical. The base Colossus has to have its decks collapsed and a bunch of turrets and the Hammer Barrage installed - hard to do without a proper shipyard.
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #126 on: December 12, 2020, 08:37:47 AM »

Ah! I apologize. I misunderstood you.

The only vanilla Pather ships/skins are:
Kite
Brawler
Buffalo (sprited, but not implemented)
Cerberus
Colossus 2
Lasher
Hound
Gremlin
Prometheus

Out of those, only the Colossus 2 can be converted. All the other Pather ships are added by mods which haven't added support for Roider conversions. Same with Church ships.

You can convert the Pather Colossus 2 to the Roider Colossus 2 without Heavy Industry because they are nearly identical. The base Colossus has to have its decks collapsed and a bunch of turrets and the Hammer Barrage installed - hard to do without a proper shipyard.

No biggie. Well I did not assume that this behaviour is intended and I can only make assumptions based on mod files. Is there a manual somewhere for Union HQ mechanics? Having heavy industry on the same market changes things? How does commodity production work?
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #127 on: December 12, 2020, 04:48:32 PM »

I am working on improving the tooltips for the Roider Dives and Union HQ.

Roider Dives spawns mining fleets and supplies ore, rare ore, organics, and volatiles.

Dives need ore, rare ore, organics, or volatiles deposits on an unclaimed planet in the same system. A Union HQ can reach systems up to 6 light years away (Dives can technically reach 1 light year away, but systems don't spawn that close together). If a resource is available, it is supplied at a base level + the best available modifier. Ore and organics are base 1, while rare ore and volatiles are base -1.

Union HQ also spawns patrol fleets, adds a submarket, and adds retrofitting. A partial conversion set is offered at all Union HQs, and the full set is available where there is also a Heavy Industry/Orbital Works. The patrol fleets don't stack with Patrol HQ/Mil Base/High Command.
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #128 on: December 12, 2020, 06:45:55 PM »

I am working on improving the tooltips for the Roider Dives and Union HQ.

Roider Dives spawns mining fleets and supplies ore, rare ore, organics, and volatiles.

Dives need ore, rare ore, organics, or volatiles deposits on an unclaimed planet in the same system. A Union HQ can reach systems up to 6 light years away (Dives can technically reach 1 light year away, but systems don't spawn that close together). If a resource is available, it is supplied at a base level + the best available modifier. Ore and organics are base 1, while rare ore and volatiles are base -1.

Union HQ also spawns patrol fleets, adds a submarket, and adds retrofitting. A partial conversion set is offered at all Union HQs, and the full set is available where there is also a Heavy Industry/Orbital Works. The patrol fleets don't stack with Patrol HQ/Mil Base/High Command.
Wow, I had no idea Heavy Industry augments Union HQ and gives the player full access to retrofitting on owned markets and its not exclusive to Korovin.
Thanks, it's much clearer now.
Do (enemy/ally/own) dives/HQs reduce each others effectiveness if more are built within range?

The patrol fleets don't stack with Patrol HQ/Mil Base/High Command.
Roider patrols associated with my faction continue to spawn in a system where I spammed Patrol HQs on 10+ markets so I'm a bit confused.
They do not, however in systems with military base(s). As far as I know military bases stack so if Union HQ patrols don't scale somehow I guess the player will have to rely on military bases after some point, right?
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #129 on: December 12, 2020, 07:36:45 PM »

Do (enemy/ally/own) dives/HQs reduce each others effectiveness if more are built within range?

Nope. They can't harvest resources off of non-neutral planets, but that is it.

Roider patrols associated with my faction continue to spawn in a system where I spammed Patrol HQs on 10+ markets so I'm a bit confused.
They do not, however in systems with military base(s). As far as I know military bases stack so if Union HQ patrols don't scale somehow I guess the player will have to rely on military bases after some point, right?

Each Union HQ in a system gives you 6 fleets. Each Patrol HQ gives you 2 fleets. A Union HQ and a Patrol HQ on the same colony gives you 6 fleets, because they don't stack. Military Bases and High Commands can give you more than 6 fleets, so they outperform Union HQs. Roider patrols can still spawn sometimes, though.
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2020, 03:14:40 AM »

Do (enemy/ally/own) dives/HQs reduce each others effectiveness if more are built within range?

Nope. They can't harvest resources off of non-neutral planets, but that is it.

Roider patrols associated with my faction continue to spawn in a system where I spammed Patrol HQs on 10+ markets so I'm a bit confused.
They do not, however in systems with military base(s). As far as I know military bases stack so if Union HQ patrols don't scale somehow I guess the player will have to rely on military bases after some point, right?

Each Union HQ in a system gives you 6 fleets. Each Patrol HQ gives you 2 fleets. A Union HQ and a Patrol HQ on the same colony gives you 6 fleets, because they don't stack. Military Bases and High Commands can give you more than 6 fleets, so they outperform Union HQs. Roider patrols can still spawn sometimes, though.
What's the deal with Roider Dives? How do they interact with Patrol HQs?
And thanks for explaining :)
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #131 on: December 13, 2020, 07:17:58 AM »

Dives are where lowercase-R roiders gather. Not all roiders are Roiders - members of the Roider Union - which is why you see pirate roiders.

Dives don't spawn patrols, so they don't interact with Patrol HQs, etc.
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2020, 10:48:52 AM »

Dives are where lowercase-R roiders gather. Not all roiders are Roiders - members of the Roider Union - which is why you see pirate roiders.

Yeah, I remember the glitchy nightmare when I befriended the pirates in a Vayra's Sector playthrough.


Union HQ production feels underwhelming. A size 5 market with moderate rare ore produces 4 transplutonic ores using an administrator blessed with Industrial Planning.
Union HQ produces only 3 utilizing a +3 bonus via Ultrarich rare ores. Also what's up with the -1 modifier? (see pic)
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SafariJohn

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #133 on: December 15, 2020, 07:50:39 PM »

Union HQ resource supply is the exact same as Roider Dives because Union HQ does a bunch of other stuff. It doesn't scale with colony size because Roider Dives doesn't take up an industry slot and is likely to have the best modifiers on four resources, none of which have to be on the planet.

As it says, the -1 is the base size. You need at least +2 from an admin and/or resources to get any supply.
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onewhosaysgoose

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Re: [0.9.1a] Roider Union 1.0.9
« Reply #134 on: December 21, 2020, 10:13:14 AM »

Could you implement the conversion mechanic for all the pirate conversions flying around? It would be really cool to drag an atlas home, sell its cargo, and pay to get it rebuild into the Atlas Mk2.

It would probably be much more involved to get it working for any of the other mods' hackjob conversions, but the system you currently have is pretty fun.
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