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Author Topic: Terrain  (Read 70804 times)

Alex

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Terrain
« on: May 23, 2015, 09:52:20 AM »

Blog post here.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 11:37:22 AM by David »
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Ahne

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2015, 10:15:24 AM »

Awesome!!  ;D
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Toxcity

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2015, 10:31:06 AM »

When this new update comes out, being in campaign will be as interesting as combat.
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Andy H.K.

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2015, 10:39:04 AM »

Reading these blog posts is almost as exciting as playing the game itself.
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arcibalde

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 10:43:52 AM »

Hhehehe Alex is on creative rampage  ;D
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Creator of:
Relics MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Vanilla addon MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Project ONI MOD - mission only

Thaago

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 10:44:27 AM »

Bravo!
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BillyRueben

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 10:51:18 AM »

Very cool. How do the nebula play out in combat? Did the change make a subtle difference, or are nebula the great equalizer between frigate zerging and capital ships?
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frag971

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 10:53:44 AM »

Nice, will mods be able to create their own terrains?

How about:

* Minefields - deal damage as ships pass through, no damage if not moving.
* Space junk - like rings but with a different effect.
* Traffic jam - around stations or planets, too many ships overcrowding the spaceports significantly reducing speed within a small radius around them.
* No-go zones - the military doesn't want you there and will actively chase and auto-engage in combat if you go inside.
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Let's say I'm captaining the ISS Slightly Lopsided Isosceles Triangle here.

Tartiflette

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 11:01:53 AM »

That is AWESOME!
Questions:
 - What about hyperspace? Is it one of the "2 other terrains that might not cut it"? Would be sad to liven up the systems when fleets also spend an awful lot of time traveling in Hyper.
 - Are Terrain automatically known or do you have to fly through them to find their exact type?
 - I want to know about modding too! Seems a rather logical thing to add to the API but better be sure than disappointed.

Suggestions:
 - The return of the gravity well? Like you are faster while going toward a massive object than getting away. Would allow more maneuvers to intercept or avoid a fleet but might be tricky to convey and to code the AI for.
 - Hydrogen nebula that slowly replenishing fuel as long as you are still. (can be expended but slowly replenish)
 - Battle graveyards that allows to replenish some supplies (will be expended over time)
Those two could smooth the difficult early start, while not providing enough resources to make a difference later with a large fleet.
 - Hyperspace instability that raise the fuel consumption but reduce the supplies use (because energy handwaving). Also reduce both Detection and Sensor ranges. (temporary)
 - Different types of Minefields! From the good 'ol Megaton nukes that have no IFF and damage ships as you move like Frag971 suggested, to the high tech Laser mines that on the contrary damage more if you stay still and slowly replenish as they can recharge their batteries.
 - Deep space, the space between the two stars of a binary system is quite empty and allows higher speeds and sensor range.
 - Pulsar Gama radiation waves that kill some crew after you went through a few (temporary and does not kill them immediately) => this totally calls for a Medbay hullmod, and other deadly terrains.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 11:17:33 AM by Tartiflette »
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Alex

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 11:12:05 AM »

Thank you all :)

When this new update comes out, being in campaign will be as interesting as combat.

I hope so! There's a *lot* of work left to do in tweaking all of the mechanics so they work together in a fun way, but at least the ingredients are finally mostly there.

Reading these blog posts is almost as exciting as playing the game itself.

Hah, that could be taken in two different ways :) I'm going to assume the favorable interpretation.


Very cool. How do the nebula play out in combat? Did the change make a subtle difference, or are nebula the great equalizer between frigate zerging and capital ships?

Right now, the top speed is reduced to 70/80/90% for frigates/destroyers/cruisers; fighters and capital ships are unaffected. The numbers are exposed in settings.json for easy tweaking. I haven't done a lot of playtesting (ok, I haven't done any yet, besides making sure the changes actually work), so it's hard to say. What I *want*, though, is for the changes to be meaningful, but not as crippling as combat nebulas are to capital ships now. That is, I don't want "go into nebula" to be the go-to cheese for all seasons.


Nice, will mods be able to create their own terrains?
- I want to know about modding too! Seems a rather logical thing to add to the API but better be sure than disappointed.

Yes, terrain is done in a mod-friendly way, including rendering custom graphics. For example, the nebula rendering, both in the main campaign view and on the campaign map, is done *entirely* in plugin implementation code. There's even a nice API for creating custom tooltips.

One issue might be making fleet AI aware of new terrain types - looking at some options there.


* Space junk - like rings but with a different effect.

That reminds me, I've been meaning to look at assigning an effect to the hab rings around markets...

- What about hyperspace? Is it one of the "2 other terrains that might not cut it"? Would be sad to liven up the systems when fleets also spend an awful lot of time traveling in Hyper.

:-X

- Are Terrain automatically known or do you have to fly through them to find their exact type?

Automatically known - nebulas and asteroids show up on the map. Rings don't, but they probably/maybe will eventually. In any case, none of that is subject to sensor interactions, you just see it and can tell what it is based on the graphics. Once you're in it, it shows up on the "current terrain" list above the ability bar and you can see the exact effects in the tooltip there.

Suggestions:
 - The return of the gravity well? Like you are faster while going toward a massive object than getting away. Would allow more maneuvers to intercept or avoid a fleet but might be tricky to convey and to code the AI for.
 - Hydrogen nebula that slowly replenishing fuel as long as you are still. (can be expended but slowly replenish)
 - Battle graveyards that allows to replenish some supplies (can be expended)
 - Hyperspace instability that raise the fuel consumption but reduce the supplies use (because energy handwaving). Also reduce both Detection and Sensor ranges. (temporary)
 - Different types of Minefields!
 - Deep space, the space between the two stars of a binary system is quite empty and allows higher speeds and sensor range.
 - Pulsar Gama radiation waves that kill some crew after you went through a few (temporary and does not kill them immediately) => this totally calls for a Medbay hullmod, and other deadly terrains.

Neat ideas, yeah. Trying to keep it simple for now, but can see adding more terrain later. (Particularly keen on "battle graveyards", though they wouldn't necessarily be expressed as terrain - but perhaps they could.)
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Tartiflette

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2015, 11:31:05 AM »

Yes, terrain is done in a mod-friendly way, including rendering custom graphics. For example, the nebula rendering, both in the main campaign view and on the campaign map, is done *entirely* in plugin implementation code. There's even a nice API for creating custom tooltips.

One issue might be making fleet AI aware of new terrain types - looking at some options there.
Great! I suppose the basic way would be to assign a/some vanilla types with a scale factor for each... We could even create a modding library like lazyLib with custom types to call.

Quote
Automatically known - nebulas and asteroids show up on the map. Rings don't, but they probably/maybe will eventually. In any case, none of that is subject to sensor interactions, you just see it and can tell what it is based on the graphics. Once you're in it, it shows up on the "current terrain" list above the ability bar and you can see the exact effects in the tooltip there.
Dang it. I'm sure I could have used that for a secret project I'm working on.

Quote
Neat ideas, yeah. Trying to keep it simple for now, but can see adding more terrain later. (Particularly keen on "battle graveyards", though they wouldn't necessarily be expressed as terrain - but perhaps they could.)
Yeah, adding all of them would be too much anyway, just dumping ideas in case one grab your attention. Mods will do the rest ^^

Btw, could battle terrains be affected by weapons and vice-versa? Would be interesting to see beams diffracted by nebulae shortening their range, or nukes and ship explosions dispersing them, or push asteroids...
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Linnis

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2015, 11:40:59 AM »

Need a UI piece telling you what % your visibility, speed, sensor is currently.
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Alex

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2015, 11:45:12 AM »

Dang it. I'm sure I could have used that for a secret project I'm working on.

You could probably do it with custom terrain. Don't think it'd be all that complicated, even - just don't render the thing until the player "knows" about it.

Btw, could battle terrains be affected by weapons and vice-versa? Would be interesting to see beams diffracted by nebulae shortening their range, or nukes and ship explosions dispersing them, or push asteroids...

Probably not, battle terrain is decidedly more hard-coded. You can already do all that to asteroids, though, with the being regular entities.

I did try a bunch of more involved stuff for nebulas early on, btw - beam fire "charging" them, etc - and it just didn't work out well. Not to say that it couldn't, but it just didn't feel right for me.


Need a UI piece telling you what % your visibility, speed, sensor is currently.

Yeah, if you look at the screenshot - see those values sort of above the logistics widget in the lower left? These are the sensor range and profile; still need to redo the logistics widget to incorporate those nicely, though, and there are a couple more UI things I'd like to do here to make it all nice. For speed, I think the bar showing your maximum and current burn levels does the job.
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Linnis

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2015, 11:55:42 AM »

Ow, so that means we actually get values. Think we could expand the CR/Burn speed bar in include sensor and visibility? just like how when you get extra or decrease burn it indicates with different colors.
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Alex

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Re: Terrain
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2015, 12:03:46 PM »

Probably not a good fit for a bar as it doesn't have a consistent/useful upper bound. I do want to include some more visual indicators for stuff, though, which is included in the "make it all nice" part :)
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